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Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

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Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#681
post #20

There was a freakonomics podcast recently about advertising (online and traditional). No one can actually prove it has any ROI at all. No one is willing to run the experiments necessary. In the few cases of natural experiments, where ads got turned off for some people by accident, there was no change in buying behavior. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/advertising-part-1/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/advertising-…

This is patently false. I have friends who have worked years developing solutions for doing ad effectiveness comparisons. They are A/B tests in most cases but some methodologies require a lot of sophistication because of problems tracking conversions.

Traditional ad platforms like TV, newspapers might not have done this but online ones surely do. Infact that is one point they consider an advantage as you can measure effectiveness unlike the traditional platforms.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#682
post #20

There was a freakonomics podcast recently about advertising (online and traditional). No one can actually prove it has any ROI at all. No one is willing to run the experiments necessary. In the few cases of natural experiments, where ads got turned off for some people by accident, there was no change in buying behavior. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/advertising-part-1/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/advertising-…

This is blatantly false. It’s incredibly easy to prove that digital advertising is effective using A/B testing.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That not only should be illegal, it is. Using somebody else's trademark in a way that could decieve a customer into thinking your product is theirs is like the definition of infringement. But from what I've seen, the vast majority of ads that incorporate a competitors trademark are not doing that, and making it very clear they are advertising an alternative to the trademark being referenced.

This seems like a positive thing imo. A lot of adverts are formatted as "Tired of x? Check out Y!". I see no way this is infringement and its a net benefit to the world since it shows people new things without tricking them.

Yeah, there's lots of places where IP law is pretty dumb, but this is one of those spots where they struck a pretty good balance and things are mostly working well.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#685
post #522

We did a similar kind of experiment some time back and found both FB ads and Google ads were doing jack shit for us. Google was better. FB ads were absolutely useless. So we stopped our ad spend. We observed no change in our customer acquisition. Another way these ad engines extract money out of you is by allowing competitors to bid for your brand name keyword. Try searching for Ozonetel on Google. There will be six…

Great initiative. Frankly most organisations continue spending on digital ads despite seeing diminishing returns because they have had hired people, often at the VP level to do just ads. These people obviously have to justify their salary so they forcibly convolute numbers to attribute some revenue to justify what they do- which is running ads.

They randomly change distribution models, ignore the bot traffic, and present eye candy line graphs to show "tremendous" impact from ads. And this keeps on running until cash graph goes below the threshold and CEO goes into the "introspection" mode.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not sneaky to compete in a marketplace.

I'd argue it is sneaky to put the competitor's name first, as most people will click quickly to move on to the website.

Disagree in this specific situation (generally yes) - "XYZ alternative" is about as clear language as you can get. Nothing sneaky about it.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not sneaky to compete in a marketplace.

I'd argue it is sneaky to put the competitor's name first, as most people will click quickly to move on to the website.

If ozonetel is trademarked it's generally against Google Ads TOS for competitors to use the term in ad copy. File a complaint.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#688
post #627
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true. Google search ads are rarely malicious - Google does a pretty good screening them.

I disagree. When searching for crypto related terms, more often than not I see phishing sites as ads than legitimate ads.

The whole cryptocurrency field is scamming. Phishing is just a little bit more obvious about it.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too much to hope for: a Chromium fork to have the search hint dropdown provide suggestions + Duck Duck Go results. And maybe block the enter key unless a resolvable address had been entered to prevent inadvertent Google searches.

I had a hunch and looked at MDN's list of web extension APIs. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Add-ons/Web... It seems like you could implement your described behavior as a cross-browser extension, for everything except Safari (and Android Firefox -_-). Easier than forking Chrome! :)

Thanks. It does seem tantalizingly there. Now that I've pondered it a bit more I think what I want is a one-way direction from Google's suggestions into an ad-free browsing space. The omnibox is a bit of a misdirection.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#690
post #20

There was a freakonomics podcast recently about advertising (online and traditional). No one can actually prove it has any ROI at all. No one is willing to run the experiments necessary. In the few cases of natural experiments, where ads got turned off for some people by accident, there was no change in buying behavior. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/advertising-part-1/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/advertising-…

> No one can actually prove it has any ROI at all. No one is willing to run the experiments necessary. This is entirely false. I work in adtech, and almost all companies run experiments in order to optimize their ad spend (everything from Ad A vs Ad B, to Ad vs No Ad, to Channel A vs Channel B, and more). This isn't to say that advertising always produces ROI. Quite often, experiments will be run that will show a cer…

> without any attempt to validate their investments.

I've also worked in adtech, for quite a long time on all sides, and my experience is that far more companies do research to justify their ad spend not validate it.

I have managed plenty of A/B tests in my day, each one claiming to show some improvement, 10%, 15% etc (some, as you said, showing no improvement). Even though these tests are often run "correctly", essentially nobody goes back and asks "wait, we had a 10% increase multiple times in the past year, but is our really showing the cumulative improvement we expected?"

The greatest trick in the industry is that because VC are pouring money into everything, everywhere, every metric appears to grow. At every startup, everywhere, pre-pandemic, numbers were going up because people were pouring money into the system.

I've worked at companies who I know for a fact their adtech product cannot and does not work, yet their business continues to explode because in recent months nearly all ad spend has been on digital ads.

I've talked to companies whose entire function is bidding optimization who literally do not understand how to optimize bidding given the information you have.

Absolutely people are running "experiments" but the function of the "experiments" is to justify that the ad team is worth having, and then that the VP of marketing is doing their job and then that the CEO has hired some super smart people, and then that the VCs might have really found a unicorn. Everyone sees what they want and no one really wants to ask the question "wait, does this really work? are these tests really able to capture the complexity of the environment?" And if you are one of those ornery people that insists on probing into the details and seeing if any of this is working, you will eventually get fired.

Ad tech is largely a scam, but a huge number of rich and smart people benefit from the illusion that it is not, so we continue to see experiments showing that everything works as expected.

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