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Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

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Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#301

There is also one agent problem : manager status is linked to headcount or/and budget. As a head of marketing, you have no interested at all at reducing your ad budget, quite the opposite !

Right, if you do science and it turns out your department has a smaller effect on revenue you just lost power/status. So these experiments won't be done at most orgs.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be misunderstanding... but, negarive ROI? I.e, the more they spent on ads, the less sales they got? Feels like a missed something, as that sounds... counterintuivie. (Not in any way related to the ad industry so pardon my ignorance)

No. A negative ROI just implies that the ratio of benefit/cost is less than one. If I incur a cost/investment of $100 but it creates value of $200 then I have an ROI of 100%. If this same expenditure instead only produced $80 value then I would have -20% ROI as in the value I’m realizing from my investment is 20% less than the cost of the investment.

Ratio can't be negative, they can either be above of below 1. What you are talking about is "$benefit - $cost", not "$benefit / cost".

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#303
post #295
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

This all true. Source: My 11 years running ads on these platforms.

Can you please elaborate? Your source is just an appeal to authority, but I would really appreciate more evidence to help explain your position.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#304

There is also one agent problem : manager status is linked to headcount or/and budget. As a head of marketing, you have no interested at all at reducing your ad budget, quite the opposite !

That’s a rather naive way of looking at how corporations work. If you’re the head of marketing and go to the CFO and say “hey, we found a way to get the exact same results we currently get but at half the cost” you can bet you will be rewarded for it.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#305
What's important to highlight here is that marketing teams at companies such as Uber are incentivized to pus vendors to drive fraud. Specific example: Uber works with vendors A, B, C. Marketing team is incentivized to reach a cost per sign-up of $X (Let's say $50 for the sake of this example). Vendor A, running fraud, delivers sign-ups @ 45$ each. Vendor B, clean, delivers them at $55 each. Vendor C @ $65 each. The new baseline from an exec standpoint is $45 each, and every vendor that doesn't deliver at that level is cut. Repeat with multiple vendors.

The solution to this problem is incrementality measurement at the channel level. Every time you scale with a recently onboarded vendor, measure baseline of ALL conversions happening on your app. If this baseline doesn't move, cut the vendor. I say scale and not launch because upon launh, there won't be a visible impact on the global conversions. To be able to spot this spike from baseline, pick a small market than "worldwide". For ex, pick "California", let the new vendor scale in California, and measure spike in California.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is that the overwhelming majority of digital ad formats just don’t work. Does anyone who works in digital ad tech genuinely believe that these formats work? I have been here for the last ten years and have come to believe they do not, certainly not comparable like traditional linear TV or print in their heydays. There are exceptions. I think Google search ad works so well it’s eating the product.…

Instagram ads for millenials are like flies to honey in my anecdotal experience. So many of my peers buy their furniture, dress shoes, clothing, water bottles, watches, dog leashes, pretty much everything in their lives from seeing some like-aged person use that thing on an instagram ad (and the product usually being pretty cheap). It blows my mind how successful these dime a dozen drop shipping companies based on in…

>It blows my mind how successful these dime a dozen drop shipping companies based on instagram are with millenials and gen z, and buying like this will only be more normalized in the future as more people know someone who got something nice from that instagram ad.

Especially with stay-at-home orders due to the pandemic, everyone (well, not everyone... but hyperbole) now has their own drop shipping brands operated out of their basements, all selling the same cheap products off of AliExpress. Will consumers catch on to what is going on? Do they even care?

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#307

Together with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25623858 it might appear like there's a coordinated takedown of ad tech companies going on. Google derives 80% of its revenue from ads, Facebook 99%. Imagine these giants coming down if it turns out that online ads aren't effective? EDIT: Tweaked the wording regarding the alleged "coordinated takedown" as a reaction to a comment.

Good. Advertising is a terrible zero-sum industry that just distorts market activity. It has little place in capitalism or any other system.

Exceptions:

- New products deserve some advertising. I would handle that like the patent system. Demonstrate your product is sufficiently different, and get access to some attention economy time slice.

Some may say, well what about competition with existing products to bring down cost? Simple, get rid of stupid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopolistic_competition and start selling things in unmarked tubs with a price tag. Cheapest one wins. Of course, there has to be quality control and avoiding regulatory capture with that, but stupid brands are not a good solution to that problem.

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#308
I always saw ads as a zero sum game. We all have limited dollars and attention. When you advertise, you might slightly change the allocation of attention and dollar to your product.

When everyone advertises, it is back to the same status quo. And when everyone stops advertising it ends up being the same.

I really hope more companies would stop advertising or at least question the value they are getting out of those money pits. Ads created some of most horrible companies the world ever saw (Google, Facebook).

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#309

Because most advertising is not effective on a 1:1 basis. The clean, direct conversion funnel is in most industries and sectors a complete myth. Advertising is about awareness. All good marketing is long-term. Digital advertising has been sold (by overzealous marketers) as magical 1:1 sales machines. It is almost always not that. This is the hardest thing to convey to clients. Clients want a promise and a guarantee o…

I believe there is some overall culture-rotting efficacy, but it's such a depressing conspiracy: complete coordination failure with real problems, and yet a cartel of marginally negative-ROI ad spending to prop up consumerism?

Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend

#310

You can A/B test ads pretty easily, and this is quite common. With some degree of statistical certainty, you can tell how one ad performs to another. You don't have control over your SEO results as well - but you can also measure against SEO traffic with a high degree of certainty. All big companies do this. Sure, you're never going to know exactly how many people you advertised to would have organically, eventually…

This is all discussed in the podcast.

There’s no revenue change even after testing (when you tack on costs of ad delivery).

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