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TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

treecard.org

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Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#81

Post by avianlyric »

eatonphil wrote: post #19
chrisseaton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the way this is worded (and I suppose it must be how it works) it means that Mastercard charges a fee and you have an agreement to take some of that fee from Mastercard on each transaction. Just seems a little backwards. I don't really see why that's backwards? The mechant pays for a service (accepting card payments) from Mastercard. Mastercard take some of that fee and give it to the card provider so they can…

Well just historically speaking the easiest way to be a middleman is to charge a fee on top of what you're middleman-ing. And this doesn't work like that. But who am I to say what's backwards? :D

Don’t try applying logic to Mastercard fees.

The PDF the lists out all the fees and how they’re calculated is hundreds of pages long. Even the banks who pay some of these fee don’t understand them all.

Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#82

Post by vorticalbox »

darawk wrote: post #66
klyrs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A card that leaks crude oil on every purchase would be more effective (if ridiculous from an engineering/logistical perspective) -- salves for consumer guilt aren't merely not doing enough, they're enabling the behavior that's doing the most harm.

How exactly would a card that leaks crude oil be more effective? Leaking crude oil is terrible for the environment. Planting trees is good for it.

Is planting more trees actually good for the environment?

You plant a tree and it grows taking co2 from the air after a 100 years of so it dies it rots and releases all the c02 it captured.

What we need to do is massively reduce the amount of gress house gasses we release and then work on taking out of the air in a way that won't put it back in again.

Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#83

Post by throwaway201103 »

fumblebee wrote: post #30

We’re fast moving away from physical cards being necessary. With the ubiquity of Apple / Google Pay, the TreeCard feels like a gimmick more than a solution.

Maybe. I personally don't use those payment systems; I don't have any desire for Apple or Google to have that kind of direct individual insight into my spending.

Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#84

Post by avianlyric »

codingdave wrote: post #26

I like the concept, but so many questions -- Who is behind this? As in, what bank? If it is a debit card, I have an account somewhere holding my money. Is it insured? Is this just a branded card from an existing bank, or is this a new organization? Is this even real, or just another "build a landing page to see if there is interest"? "How it works" needs to answer the financial side of this product, not just what per…

Tree Card probably have an e-money licence. They’ll have a backing bank that actually holds the money, and probably another company that manages the card.

They’ll be required to keep that money in a custodial account with their backing bank, so Tree Card will have no ability to operate a fractional reserve, or use their clients money for operating purposes. Their banking bank is probably required to make sure they’re following the rules.

If Tree Card go bust, then your money will be safe (Tree Card can’t really touch it), it it’ll probably take some time to recover it from their backing bank.

If the backing bank goes bust, then I’m not sure what happens. But I think the custodial status of the account should offer some protections. But again it’ll take a while to get your money back.

Oh, and finally, there e-money license probably makes it very difficult to explain this. If they said something like “your money is as well protected as in an FSCS (U.K. government bank account protection) protected account” they would probably get told off by the regulator, because the protection isn’t the same.

Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#85

Post by throwaway201103 »

dangelov wrote: post #57
chrisseaton wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think about the argument about it allowing you to keep your money invested for longer? Say you're ordering something large like a car. You can pay the deposit on a debit card, and lose access to the money immediately, or you can pay on a credit card, and keep your money invested for another month or so, still earning you money, until you need to settle. A credit card gives a consumer liquidity. I don't th…

What kind of income are you looking at for an extra month, even with a huge payment like a car (which I don't think people use credit OR debit cards for in Europe)? I suspect for the vast majority of people it's going to be negligible at best.

I've never tried buying a car with a credit card (though my credit limits are, insanely, high enough that I could).

I would guess it might be seen as a cash advance and charged interest immediately, also not accrue into the loyalty rewards. But I don't really know.

Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#86

Post by throwaway201103 »

elric wrote: post #61
chrisseaton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're using the money you have vs. taking a loan? Why would you want to use the money you have when you can take a free loan until the end of the month? A free loan means you can keep your own money invested or otherwise working more efficiently for you somehow. > the no.1 personal finance advice is "stop using CCs" I've never seen this - I see 'use CC's more to build up your credit'. I use my cards religiously an…

> Why would you want to use the money you have when you can take a free loan until the end of the month? Because it's usually not free. Most banks charge some fee for providing a credit card. Debit cards are completely free with most banks.

In the US it's easy to get a zero-fee credit card. Most have rewards programs.

The personal finance advice I've heard is not "don't use credit cards" it is "don't carry a balance on credit cards."

Carrying a balance will eat you alive on interest. As will fees for late payments or going over the limit. If you have the self-discipline to not do those things, there's no reason to not use a credit card.

Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#87

Post by glaugh »

gajomi wrote: post #53
klyrs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A card that leaks crude oil on every purchase would be more effective (if ridiculous from an engineering/logistical perspective) -- salves for consumer guilt aren't merely not doing enough, they're enabling the behavior that's doing the most harm.

I can imagine a variant of this card that tries to tackle the point you bring up. Not all purchases are equal. Some of them have negative carbon footprints. The tree planting offsets the footprint for every purchase. These things are not easy to estimate exactly but since there are probably order of magnitude differences in carbon footprints for different products there should be useful information about the relative…

This feels very clever to me. I think people have very wrong senses of how bad various actions are for carbon footprint. I know folks who don’t eat meat for CO2 reasons (which I’m fine with) but fly across the US all the time—-sorry citation needed and happy to be corrected but I did this math once and it was roughly one year of meat = one (round?)trip.

A side-benefit, in my view, is to show that actually offsetting carbon footprints isn’t terribly expensive (for people who have the disposable income to fly across the country), which I think counters the “We’d have to shut down the economy to stop global warming” misconception that I believe a lot of people have (citation also needed here, just personal experience)

The Indulgences That Actually Work Card (in the sense of old Catholic indulgences), you could call it :)

Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#88

Post by throwaway201103 »

briandear wrote: post #48
chrisseaton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're using the money you have vs. taking a loan? Why would you want to use the money you have when you can take a free loan until the end of the month? A free loan means you can keep your own money invested or otherwise working more efficiently for you somehow. > the no.1 personal finance advice is "stop using CCs" I've never seen this - I see 'use CC's more to build up your credit'. I use my cards religiously an…

The problem is that most people lack discipline and run up debt. Using CCs is fine if you are extremely disciplined. Dave Ramsey made a career out of teaching “normal” undisciplined people how to avoid and eliminate debt and that includes the advice of “never ever use credit cards or get loans.” A 15 year home mortgage with 20% or more down is the only acceptable debt in his eyes. (And that’s because human nature oft…

We don't spend nearly enough time in primary and high school teaching practical personal finance. For many people that could be the single most important life skill they learn in 12 years of education.

Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#89

Post by throwaway201103 »

robjan wrote: post #22
TeMPOraL wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better secured and you're using the money you have vs. taking a loan? I ditched my CCs as soon as debit cards could be reliably used for on-line purchases. And AFAIK, the no.1 personal finance advice is "stop using CCs". I'm in Europe, though. That may be an European thing.

In the UK, at least, if a transaction paid with a credit card is between £100 - £30k and the merchant becomes unable / unwilling to render the goods / services, you get the full amount back under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. This is to prevent people from being in debt for things they never receive. You don't get that protection with a debit card. I'm sure other countries have similar protection.

AFAIK in the US, the merchant is not allowed to charge the card until the good/service has been delivered (or shipped). I'm sure some do anyway...

Re: TreeCard: The wooden debit card that plants trees

#90

Post by throwaway201103 »

xwdv wrote: post #71
war1025 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of interest a savings account is going to accrue in that time is negligible to the point of being worthless.

Nope. Invest the money into an S&P 500 ETF and you’ll probably gain 10% profit by the time you have put down your last payment.

The S&P return is not always and certainly not guaranteed to be 10% or even positve. Some months/years it is negative. It's an exceedingly bad idea to keep cash that you will need in the short term (< 5 years) invested in equities.
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