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My Experience at Apple

ex-apple-engineer.medium.com

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Re: My Experience at Apple

#811

Post by jariel »

xenihn wrote: post #262
jariel wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you did specifically say 'assert their own boundaries'. That's victim blaming to the extent there is nothing someone can do to assert themselves other than basically leaving.

The poster you're responding to is dispensing advice on how to handle and escape from predators. Accusing them of victim shaming is wrong, and you're just siding supporting the predators by doing so. It's good advice.

"to is dispensing advice on how to handle and escape from predator"

No - his advice of 'applying assertion' is definitely wrong in this context, where the advice should be 1) leave or 2) bend like a reed in the wind and avoid avoid avoid. Reacting to antagonizing - even if the victim knew how to do it, would likely yield more blowback - and more likely, the victim would have no idea how to assert themselves.

The situation is not like 'physical assault' where you have nothing to lose from fighting back.

Inability to pushback is not a function of decision or character, it's a function of the crazy power dynamic.

If the victim had US citizenship, it would have been much easier to hold ground, for example.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#813

Post by rendall »

Diesel555 wrote: post #807
rendall wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've had experiences in war torn countries and seen those that are drastically less fortunate than the author. Author is literally from a war-torn country and would have had to go back if they were fired. This situation was explicitly part-and-parcel of their bullying.

I did mention that he was in a country that had been at war in my post. Hence my question.

For me, that explains the extreme level of stress on its own, nevermind just the normal deleterious psychological effects of workplace bullying. You don't need to invoke "ambition stress"

* from war-torn country (I'm guessing Syria, or maybe Yemen) * worked extremely hard to get a dream job * first job * complete lack of support from people who are supposed to help you do your job * bullying and scapegoating at that job, * cannot quit or you have to go back to the war-torn country * cannot be fired or you have to go back to the war-torn country * not enough experience to know if this is normal or how to handle it

As an aside, a careful reading of the article indicates that OP is probably a woman

I'm having a hard time understanding the lack of understanding. Where is the difficulty, here?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#814

Post by ksec »

BossingAround wrote: post #715
mgh2 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you are an Apple employee, please send this story to your upper management particularly Tim Cook." I doubt he will care, reflected at how he manages PR when accused of international labor abuses.

> I doubt he will care, reflected at how he manages PR when accused of international labor abuses. Provided the article is now deleted, it seems someone cared, though in a different way :/.

I am pretty sure somehow has a backup copy :)

Re: My Experience at Apple

#815

Post by ksec »

idlewords wrote: post #469

My brief advice to anyone writing such a post: start with the most serious accusation you have, and avoid the temptation to add ancillary grievances, however justified, until you have the reader fully engaged and outraged. The way this post structured now, beginning with fairly unspecific complaints about the hiring process, who invited whom to lunch, etc. makes the author come across as a young high-drama individual…

I agree and glad I am not the only one with this opinion.

The world is cruel. And you have people keep telling you to be positive and not be cynical when you are young. Except when you step into the society, it was a culture shock and the exact opposite happens. And Apple is possibly the worst culture shock on its kind.

That is not saying Apple isn't wrong. But cracks are starting to appear everywhere. Although it may take another 10 years before those cracks becomes large enough to be vulnerable.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#816

Post by ksec »

ma2rten wrote: post #53
tdhz77 wrote: post #27

I must try and understand my bias towards certain tech companies. When somebody says something bad about Facebook I instantly believe, but for some reason I had to really dig into this Apple engineer and it took me longer to believe them. Truth is harder to discern than I had thought.

In my mind the reputation of Facebook is that it's more employee friendly and customer hostile, but Apple is more employee hostile (thinking about Steve Jobs stories) and customer friendly.

> customer friendly.

No longer true. Devices repairing cost are going up, with way less free repair as good gesture than they are used to. Retail stuff are pushed for selling AppleCare+ and new devices when a repair could have been done.

None of these to me is customer centric. They are profit centric.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#817

Post by thu2111 »

kmonsen wrote: post #576
ta1339 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never read anything even half as terrible as this story on Yes At Google. I'm not saying shitty things don't happen, but I'd like to believe that such shittiness would not fly at the G.

I had friends experience what I think was way worse at Google. Don't really feel comfortable sharing, but lets say it more or less always involved power games and/or sexual harassment. Worst one was probably a combination. Google was/is great, but sadly not for everyone. I mean Andy Rubin and Amit Singhal worked at Google when they did their career ending stuff.

Rubin's career-ending stuff was being accused by a woman he had been in a relationship with and was in a custody battle with of something that could never be proven and which he strongly denied. It was career ending only due to the western culture that women are always believed, even sans evidence and when there are obvious reasons to not believe it (e.g. years having passed with the supposed victim having made no complaints, right up until there was some sort of power struggle).

Re: My Experience at Apple

#818

Post by cmrdporcupine »

ma2rten wrote: post #70
exApple-anon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some extra tidbits that didn't make it in because the edit timer ran out: - Despite the big release and herculean efforts, both of us were paid a fraction of our target bonus. This was the day I decided to move jobs. - I eventually grew some balls and told Apple to (a) pay me 2.5x during overtime (b) hire SREs for this critical service, or (c) go fuck themselves. They chose (c), which worked alright because our servi…

I got an offer from Apple. The hiring manager told me "You worked at a startup before, you'll have no problem working overtime". I didn't end up taking the offer.

Working overtime at a startup here and there can have an emotional reward, as a small team works together with enthusiasm to bring something to market. Yes, this can be abused by bad management and planning, and often is, but .. it's an entirely different beast from demanding overtime out of employees at a large profitable company where poor planning and under-resourcing are not really excusable.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#819

Post by cmrdporcupine »

reactordev wrote: post #21
exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

Sadly, you can fill in the blank with any FAANG company with this story. I’ve heard it a thousand times. Toxic management. Sorry you went through that, sorry that was your first taste of engineering out of college. Glad you stuck with it. It’s a tough spot to be. Do you roll over and do the job your being yelled at to do even though you know any concessions are BS? Or like the senior folks, do you walk? It’s a really…

9 years at Google and I've never heard of anything this bad here. I'm sure there are cases, and while I've been in unpleasant teams myself with crappy arrogant team leads who got away with dubious personal behaviour because of their engineering genius, the kind of obvious outright hostility and abuse would described by people here... well, I am pretty sure it would lead to some serious sanction.

I could be wrong and just lucky tho.

FWIW my wife worked at Apple in a non-engineering role for almost a decade about ten years ago, and I can completely see how this kind of dysfunction could happen in that company. Pressure cooker environment.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#820

Post by andrei_says_ »

j1elo wrote: post #482
mcny wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you supposed to do if your employment contract says you’re exempt (meaning no overtime pay)?

I even had to look for what it means to "be exempt". > Exempt employees stand in contrast to non-exempt employees, which are paid minimum wage and overtime above the standard 40-hour workweek. Wow if I had heard this in a random bar discussion I would called it complete and utter bullshit. The more I read HN the more it feels like being a worker in the US is like riding a horse through the wild west; anything can hap…

> The more I read HN the more it feels like being a worker in the US is like riding a horse through the wild west; anything can happen.

The term for this is “at will employment” and in most started it is the default law.

Meaning that your employment can be terminated by the employer for any reason or no reason at all, without notice.

As in, security coming to your desk and escorting you through the door.

Look it up.

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