Can someone more knowledgeable than me in this matter explain why fighter jets still require human pilots? Why aren't they completely replaced by drones?
Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
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Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
#212Weird theory of mine: The DoD ultimately picks these winning planes based on which one “looks cooler” or basically has better aesthetics. I think the F-35 has better aesthetics than the Boeing X-32, just like the F-22 has better aesthetics than the YF-23. You could say I’m used to seeing the winning designs as “normal”, but I distinctly remember having this reaction before the JSF competition was over.
Oh this is far from a weird theory. I've spoken to people who worked on the program during the fly-off in 2000/2001 and every single one of them say something like "We would never have chosen the Boeing entry because just look at it"
Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
#213Weird theory of mine: The DoD ultimately picks these winning planes based on which one “looks cooler” or basically has better aesthetics. I think the F-35 has better aesthetics than the Boeing X-32, just like the F-22 has better aesthetics than the YF-23. You could say I’m used to seeing the winning designs as “normal”, but I distinctly remember having this reaction before the JSF competition was over.
Have you seen the F-35 in VTOL mode? [1] All those covers open and nozzles stick out so the thing can exert thrust downward. It's amazing that it works. It's not surprising how expensive it was to make it work. The Harrier was kind of elegant, just some pivoting nozzles. [1] https://youtu.be/zW28Mb1YvwY
The direct lift system of the Harrier is simple but not robust. Turbines hate ingesting hot gas, and a Harrier in a descending hover is descending straight into its own hot exhaust. This can and did cause "pop stalls" which led to an abrupt loss of thrust just when you want consistent thrust, near the ground in a hover.
The LiftFan of the F-35B serves to shield the front intakes of the engine from ingesting hot gas, plus there is an auxiliary air inlet on the top of the plane that opens up and allows cold air from above to get sucked straight into the front face of the engine.
The 3 Bearing Swivel Nozzle (main engine nozzle pivoting down and somewhat steerable) combined with roll posts in the wings that can give translational thrust/roll control, and a Variable Aperture Vane Box Nozzle (VAVBN) under the lift fan all combine to give high control authority in the hover, and the flight control system has special modes to make controlling the F-35B simpler. Harriers required constant adjustment in the hover to keep from losing control. In the F-35B, once the altitude and attitude in the hover are set, the jet will maintain that as long as there's fuel remaining, without corrective pilot inputs required.
Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Neither party had modern fighter jets. If Armenia had a dozen F-35s with a good stock of LGBs, I am sure they would have gotten the edge on azerbaijan regardless of how many drones the other party uses.
They had! They were just terribly afraid to lose them when the battlefield was so tiny, air was full of near disposable targets, and capable air defence had a field day.
One of the main points of the F-35 is not having to worry about air defense because of its Stealth capabilities, and the LGBs it can carry.
Do you have an idea what kind of air force either party had? Was there anything post 1980s non-upgraded Soviet era jets in Armenia?
Wikipedia is showing only four Su-30SMs and 13 Su-25Ks (both are the older non-modernized variants). That's their entire fighter force according to Wikipedia!
Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty much anything from the last generation. Embarrassingly the F-16 beat it in combat, for example. For close air support the A-10 is vastly superior. The F-35 is an employment program like the TSA.
Interesting how you heard about that one dogfight, but not its record since then. Again, places like The Drive have been pushing bad F-35 news because it draws lots of clicks. The F-35's k/d ratio since that dogfight in 2015, when pilots were just figuring the plane out: 15-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/f-35-once-beaten-by-f-16s-sh... > Since then, the F-35 has mopped up in simulated dogfights with a 15-1 kill ra…
I can't speak to what we should expect from a competition between planes with 30+ years of technology that cost 5x as much, but this sounds a lot like a demo for foreign buyers.
It could easily be something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002#Exer... where the contest was tweaked until the correct outcome happened.
Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
#216After seeing what happened in Armenia & Azerbaijan, I'm wondering if the US's customers are pushing for these cheaper drone options instead of the F35. The F35 has been in development so long, that it's seeing its own combat role supplanted
Drones should be inherently better anyway since they don’t have to carry 80KG of meat that needs to be kept alive.
Lookup the QF-4 and QF-16. US knows how to convert fighter jets into drones just fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_A_rEZoXSg
Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
They had! They were just terribly afraid to lose them when the battlefield was so tiny, air was full of near disposable targets, and capable air defence had a field day.
One of the main points of the F-35 is not having to worry about air defense because of its Stealth capabilities, and the LGBs it can carry. Do you have an idea what kind of air force either party had? Was there anything post 1980s non-upgraded Soviet era jets in Armenia? Wikipedia is showing only four Su-30SMs and 13 Su-25Ks (both are the older non-modernized variants). That's their entire fighter force according to…
Both sides had post nineties upgrades for Su 30, and Mig 29, and they could've risked using them, but chose not to.
Both sides didn't even bomb each other's airfields for real.
Most drones were launched, and operated in the field.
Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
#218After seeing what happened in Armenia & Azerbaijan, I'm wondering if the US's customers are pushing for these cheaper drone options instead of the F35. The F35 has been in development so long, that it's seeing its own combat role supplanted
Whoever claims that drones are better than F35 forgets that the US military has the most and best drones, and more are coming. The US military is investing in both manned and unmanned aircraft, not in one at the expense of the other.
If the US military itself concedes that drones are superior, then other countries would presumably want to purchase drones which are likely far cheaper and easier to operate than expensive F-35s.
Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
#219Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold
#220Weird theory of mine: The DoD ultimately picks these winning planes based on which one “looks cooler” or basically has better aesthetics. I think the F-35 has better aesthetics than the Boeing X-32, just like the F-22 has better aesthetics than the YF-23. You could say I’m used to seeing the winning designs as “normal”, but I distinctly remember having this reaction before the JSF competition was over.
PBS Nova showed a good summary of the selection process. Regardless of aesthetics, the F-35 was objectively superior based on the rating criteria.