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Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold

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Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold

#141

Post by hshshs2 »

strictnein wrote: post #9

The Drive back again with another one of its anti-F35 articles. It would seem that this administration is just punting to the next one, which is probably a good idea. I would take anything they post about the plane with a grain of salt. They take any setback as if it's the first time a large technical project has ever experienced issues.

Well at the very least it starts to balance out the F35 propaganda the military seeds out to trade publications and social media... you should take anything you read about military tech with a grain of salt.

Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold

#142

Post by flukus »

guscost wrote: post #11

Weird theory of mine: The DoD ultimately picks these winning planes based on which one “looks cooler” or basically has better aesthetics. I think the F-35 has better aesthetics than the Boeing X-32, just like the F-22 has better aesthetics than the YF-23. You could say I’m used to seeing the winning designs as “normal”, but I distinctly remember having this reaction before the JSF competition was over.

That sounds crazy, but multiple times I've been party to multi million dollar software contracts being clinched with a few lines of css to fit the clients corporate theme.

Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold

#143

Post by dodobirdlord »

waiseristy wrote: post #139
dodobirdlord wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The F-35/s future role is as a sensor platform and networking hub for a group of lighter-weight, cheaper, and more expendable drones. Eventually the F-35 will also be unmanned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratos_XQ-58_Valkyrie

That's what Lockheed-Martin has been saying, but I'm pretty sure the F-35 is still deployed along-side an AWACS. And with more and better satellite imagery & communication. I just don't see why we need this extremely capable and expensive flying network router.

AWACS can be shot down by near-peer adversaries. And satellites travel in known orbits and have no capacity to evade. It's well known at this point that nations that can make current-generation fighter jets can also shoot down satellites.

Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold

#144

Post by tpmx »

waiseristy wrote: post #131
tpmx wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After seeing what happened in Armenia & Azerbaijan I don't think I was the only one to miss how that conflict related to the F35. Do tell?

I think the rest of the sentence answers that > I'm wondering if the US's customers are pushing for these cheaper drone options

Right, but I kinda wanted a bit more.

Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold

#145

Post by waiseristy »

tpmx wrote: post #144
waiseristy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the rest of the sentence answers that > I'm wondering if the US's customers are pushing for these cheaper drone options

Right, but I kinda wanted a bit more.

Lol, I don't know what to tell you. Drones are cheap, F-35's are expensive. QED

Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold

#147

Post by euler_angles »

lumost wrote: post #69
ardit33 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not good. Like it or not, this is the only alternative NATO has for the forceable future. The British Tempest and the French/German stealth fighter won’t be operational until 2035-2040 The only alternative are modernizes 4gen fighters which are very vulnerable to modern air defenses. A ‘buggy’ F-35 might still be a better alternative. Also the British are counting for the F-35 to equip its carriers.

I keep hearing concerns that modern radars may be able to defeat the F-35's stealth, or will be able to defeat it in the near future. I can't help but think that it will be hard to keep a plane flying at mach 1 hidden in the face of fast scanning and networked phased array radars with modern deep learning based detection algorithms. My understanding is that if you take away the stealth aspect the F-35 is a sluggish f…

> My understanding is that if you take away the stealth aspect the F-35 is a sluggish fighter bomber that would be outperformed by most 4th gens. Considering an F-35 is nearly the price of 10 4th gen fighters the choice to "upgrade" becomes pretty suspect for a lot of Nato partners.

First, "4th generation" can mean anything from an F-16A from 1978 to an F-16V of today. An F-16V is actually more expensive than an F-35A.

Second, if you take away the stealth of the F-35 it still has:

* A highly capable APG-81 radar with features like low-probability of intercept transmission modes, electronic attack (jamming) capability, multi-target track, ground moving target indication/track, synthetic aperture radar mapping, and passive (receive only) track capability

* Integrated electro-optical targeting pod with laser designator and range finder.

* Integrated software defined radio that can handle communications on UHF, VHF, Link-16, and inter-flight MADL

* 4 pi steradian awareness Distributed Aperture System that's a mid-wave IRST and missile launch/missile warning system

* Integrated Electronic Support Measures suite that provides Band 4/Band 5 detection and single ship rangefinding of incoming RF

F-16V has most of this same stuff or functional equivalents, but you pay tens of millions more to get it.

Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold

#149

Post by euler_angles »

ceejayoz wrote: post #7

It's really baffling that the US isn't looking more heavily at cheaper, easier to field aircraft like the A-29 Super Tucano for counter-insurgency operations like Iraq and Afghanistan.

A-29 was being looked into and the US even had a couple (I saw one up close once) but a diplomatic tiff with Brazil (home of the Tucano's manufacturer) about a decade ago meant that the whole effort was CANX

Re: Pentagon Puts F-35 Full-Rate Production Decision on Hold

#150

Post by toyg »

wtvanhest wrote: post #59
Judgmentality wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In any case it's also good military thinking. Or more likely enemies see it as posturing and strike full force, thinking they can pierce the superficial veil of technological supremacy. Come on, security theater is bullshit. How many people actually think the TSA does anything useful? If anything it lulls people into a false sense of safety, making us weaker. If our enemies are so easily deterred that our appearanc…

Hijackings were extremely common prior to flight security. TSA was another level, that was extremely frustrating throughout the 2000s, but at a minimum it prevents wildly unstable people from boarding with weapons Check out this list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings

Common-er, yes; “extremely” seems a bit excessive. It’s not like there was a hijack a day. And as others said, what stopped the trend is more likely to be the fact that passengers’ cooperation is now impossible.
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