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Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

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Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#51

Post by plorkyeran »

confluence_perf wrote: post #28
dalrympm wrote: post #22

I'm curious, I'm a Cloud customer and I can tell you that the service is incredibly slow even for a small scale setup (2 Jira Projects and 3 Confluence Workspaces). There's an insane amount of network requests seemingly for mouse tracking. By telling everyone here, that Atlassian Cloud products are insufferably slow, am I violating the ToS? I was actually thinking about doing a write up on the issues I've had but thi…

Sorry to hear it's been a frustrating experience. I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better. Would you be willing to share more specifics, such as: - Pages with content X are the slowest - Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? (edit: looks like HN is severely limiting my reply rate so apologies for delays) We're trying to focus on frustrating pages/experiences rather than number…

Literally everything? I don't think I could give an example of something which isn't frustratingly slow in Jira. It doesn't need targeted fixes to specific things; if I successfully made a list of the ten biggest offenders and they were all magically fixed tomorrow I don't think it'd appreciably change the experience of using Jira because the next 90 would still be awful.

When faced with long-tail performance problems, it's often better to target the things which are easier to fix rather than the highest impact fixes. Making 20 relatively low-impact things faster can easily be better than improving 10 individually high impact things.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#52

Post by Simulacra »

Jira was a disaster for our team, but the response we got as a major government contractor from Atlassian was so bad that we swore off all Atlassian products. When I would bring performance issues to the technical support team it was like trying to convince Apple there was a problem with the butterfly keyboard. Like talking to a brick wall.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#53

Post by rusticpenn »

confluence_perf wrote: post #41
burnthrow wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, everything is slow and you know it.

We have certainly heard from some customers that agree that 'everything' is slow, but we've also heard from other customers saying they have no problems. We would love to fix "everything", and we have some longer term projects focused on this -> However, "everything" fixes seem to be a more incremental boost and also take longer time to complete. If you have any feedback about "specific" items that are the most frust…

> but we've also heard from other customers saying they have no problems

I am sorry, there are probably customers who are used to the tools. Maybe they don't pass the Mom test. That point comes out as unnecessary defense here.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#54

Post by jjuhl »

Hamuko wrote: post #49
jjuhl wrote: post #26

"Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues" - Their ToS may prohibit it, but that is in no way going to stop me from doing it - I don't give a shit about some document they write. Atlassian products suck hard and their performance characteristics are horrible. I hate being forced to use their crap at work.

The problem with Atlassian's Terms of Service is that most of their end-users are not paying for the software and do not really care if they violate an agreement they were either forced to make or which someone made on their behalf.

Be honest; noone cares about (or reads) ToS agreements.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#55

Post by core-questions »

confluence_perf wrote: post #28
dalrympm wrote: post #22

I'm curious, I'm a Cloud customer and I can tell you that the service is incredibly slow even for a small scale setup (2 Jira Projects and 3 Confluence Workspaces). There's an insane amount of network requests seemingly for mouse tracking. By telling everyone here, that Atlassian Cloud products are insufferably slow, am I violating the ToS? I was actually thinking about doing a write up on the issues I've had but thi…

Sorry to hear it's been a frustrating experience. I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better. Would you be willing to share more specifics, such as: - Pages with content X are the slowest - Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? (edit: looks like HN is severely limiting my reply rate so apologies for delays) We're trying to focus on frustrating pages/experiences rather than number…

> Would you be willing to share more specifics,

You've got to be kidding me. Have you used your own product? Going from my carefully tuned Server install to cloud Jira or Confluence is a night-and-day difference. The Cloud product is virtually unusable in comparison for any heavy Jira user.

You don't need "specifics", you need your performance engineering team to literally take over the entire company for 6 months to a year. No new features - nobody fucking needs them, the features 99% of your users use have been in the product for 5+ years already. Whatever you're PM'ing, cancel it, it's a waste of time in comparison to making the product not suck. The biggest source of losing users to some other product is going to be the sheer pain of continuing to use Atlassian....

Just make it usable. Halve the number of requests. Cache more things client-side. Do more server-side pre-processing so that a round-trip is not needed when I click on a menu.

I'm not looking forward to when I am forced to migrate my users to a more expensive and less performant experience. I and hundreds of thousands of other administrators will be experiencing months of user complaints because of the forced migration as it is; this is Atlassian's real chance to make it suck less in time.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#56

Post by ssddanbrown »

I have not recently used confluence myself, but having created an open source project in the same space I have seen a few users migrate from confluence quoting speed as their main frustration & reason for migrating away. Has been the case for a couple of years so I'm surprised it has not been more of a focus for them.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#57

Post by runlevel1 »

confluence_perf wrote: post #28
dalrympm wrote: post #22

I'm curious, I'm a Cloud customer and I can tell you that the service is incredibly slow even for a small scale setup (2 Jira Projects and 3 Confluence Workspaces). There's an insane amount of network requests seemingly for mouse tracking. By telling everyone here, that Atlassian Cloud products are insufferably slow, am I violating the ToS? I was actually thinking about doing a write up on the issues I've had but thi…

Sorry to hear it's been a frustrating experience. I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better. Would you be willing to share more specifics, such as: - Pages with content X are the slowest - Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? (edit: looks like HN is severely limiting my reply rate so apologies for delays) We're trying to focus on frustrating pages/experiences rather than number…

Navigation is sluggish across the board in both Confluence and Jira.

Not just the Cloud service, the self-hosted versions are also painfully slow no matter what resources you throw at them.

That makes the other UX issues worse because the feedback loop has so much lag.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#58

Post by grzm »

tw25613937 wrote: post #46
confluence_perf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear it's been a frustrating experience. I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better. Would you be willing to share more specifics, such as: - Pages with content X are the slowest - Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? (edit: looks like HN is severely limiting my reply rate so apologies for delays)

Not trying to be snarky, but... do you use your product?

These are questions I have as well. That said, creating a throwaway and prefacing a comment with "Not trying to be snarky" shouldn't be an excuse for not taking the time to couch questions in a way you're more confident aren't going to be interpreted in a negative way. This isn't directed just at you: I see this behavior all too often: people using throwaways as an excuse to not take the time to express things in a manner that doesn't need to apologize for itself.

Atlassian employees use their products, and tips and tricks they may have to use them effectively, or make the experience of using JIRA or Confluence, or their other tools more enjoyable and useable would be great to know!

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#60

Post by ratww »

runlevel1 wrote: post #57
confluence_perf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear it's been a frustrating experience. I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better. Would you be willing to share more specifics, such as: - Pages with content X are the slowest - Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? (edit: looks like HN is severely limiting my reply rate so apologies for delays) We're trying to focus on frustrating pages/experiences rather than number…

Navigation is sluggish across the board in both Confluence and Jira. Not just the Cloud service, the self-hosted versions are also painfully slow no matter what resources you throw at them. That makes the other UX issues worse because the feedback loop has so much lag.

> Navigation is sluggish across the board in both Confluence and Jira.

Also in Bitbucket. It used to be super fast, but recent changes made it very slow.

My team loves the integration with JIRA but we're considering going to Github because of the slowness.

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