Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#71

Post by ForHackernews » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #56

As a corporation, Facebook truly seems to be trying to improve its behavior for the benefit of society at large, but the company is finding it very difficult to do The Right Thing, because it would reduce future revenue growth, shrink long-term profitability, and hurt the company's competitive standing against the many other companies that are trying to eat Facebook's lunch every day. In the extreme, Facebook's choic…

Facebook could use its wealth and influence to lobby for government regulation that would rein in bad behaviour while ensuring a level playing field so less-ethical competitors would be penalized.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#72

Post by EarthIsHome » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #62

cs702 wrote: post #56

As a corporation, Facebook truly seems to be trying to improve its behavior for the benefit of society at large, but the company is finding it very difficult to do The Right Thing, because it would reduce future revenue growth, shrink long-term profitability, and hurt the company's competitive standing against the many other companies that are trying to eat Facebook's lunch every day. In the extreme, Facebook's choic…

I see you're getting some downvotes, but I agree with you. Put another way, though: the problem is not Zuckerberg per se, it's the business model of advertising-supported, general-purpose social networks. If you took everybody out of Facebook and replaced them all with other equally qualified people, they would behave the same, as an organization. The problem is not Who, it's What. You can't "fix" Facebook, because t…

I think you're on the right track, but it's not just because it's an "advertising-supported" business model. It's the fundamental laws that govern our society: profit. Replace Zuckerberg, Bezos, et al. with anyone else, and the new CEOs' decisions will be bound by the same constraints.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#73

Post by gonzo41 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #56

As a corporation, Facebook truly seems to be trying to improve its behavior for the benefit of society at large, but the company is finding it very difficult to do The Right Thing, because it would reduce future revenue growth, shrink long-term profitability, and hurt the company's competitive standing against the many other companies that are trying to eat Facebook's lunch every day. In the extreme, Facebook's choic…

Isn't there really no choice? Doesn't the corporate responsibility force them to only consider the greatest financial gain, regardless of the downsides for society?

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#74

Post by etempleton » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

I am always a bit surprised that Facebook ended up as reliant on advertising revenue as they are. I feel like they missed opportunities to replace Craigslist as the de facto online classifieds and to offer a payment system like Apple Pay. Perhaps these are only obvious in hindsight.

I feel that most of their issues stem from their complete revenue reliance on advertising. It forces them to make decisions about their core product that reduces utility, but makes it superficially a more sticky user experience.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#75

Post by 0xB31B1B » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #62

cs702 wrote: post #56

As a corporation, Facebook truly seems to be trying to improve its behavior for the benefit of society at large, but the company is finding it very difficult to do The Right Thing, because it would reduce future revenue growth, shrink long-term profitability, and hurt the company's competitive standing against the many other companies that are trying to eat Facebook's lunch every day. In the extreme, Facebook's choic…

I see you're getting some downvotes, but I agree with you. Put another way, though: the problem is not Zuckerberg per se, it's the business model of advertising-supported, general-purpose social networks. If you took everybody out of Facebook and replaced them all with other equally qualified people, they would behave the same, as an organization. The problem is not Who, it's What. You can't "fix" Facebook, because t…

strong disagree that a Facebook staffed with different folks would behave the same. Zuckerberg has a majority of the votes due to his super voting shares. Leadership matters, individual actions matter. Twitter, for all its faults, has a leader who is leading the company down a different path than the pure money chasing and dominance, and i can imagine a differently lead Twitter being making more money and being worse for society. Zuckerberg is motivated by dominance, nothing else, and he has the ability to change course. Their actions are constrained along a set of possible outcomes but the leaders of both companies are choosing where in that set they want to land.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#76

Post by _Understated_ » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #56

As a corporation, Facebook truly seems to be trying to improve its behavior for the benefit of society at large, but the company is finding it very difficult to do The Right Thing, because it would reduce future revenue growth, shrink long-term profitability, and hurt the company's competitive standing against the many other companies that are trying to eat Facebook's lunch every day. In the extreme, Facebook's choic…

> As a corporation, Facebook truly seems to be trying to improve its behavior for the benefit of society at large

Sorry, that's a hard disagree from me and I think you couldn't be further off the mark.

Facebook's entire raison d'etre from day 1 is to take as much data from as many sources as possible, then use the most powerful computers, programmed by the brightest minds, to use that data to maximise their profit with no regard for what damage that may do to you or society at large - look at what Jonathan Haidt talks about wrt to mental health problems and social media.

They use the dirtiest psychological tactics to ensure that you never put down your phone and to ensure that you only see what they deem to have maximum engagement (whatever the f that means) and only put their hands up to any nefarious shit when a spotlight is on them for it.

I can understand Facebook wanting to clean up their image from a PR perspective but it's nothing to do with altruism or wanting to serve the public better... if they can make more money from looking like a decent bunch, they'll do it.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#77

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

SCHiM wrote: post #69

soupson wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. This is surveillance capitalism taken to its extreme. Facebook didn’t invent it, they’re just doing it in a way that makes the consequences more difficult to ignore than Google, which has been able to largely sidestep the blowback by being mission critical to so many people and also having massive goodwill projects that don’t directly point to being profit driven. It’s up to citizens of the US and EU to reign th…

I mean, GDPR is a step in the direction. Many websites, and by extension, people seem to think that you comply by 'gdpr' by putting up a stupid cookie banner. But the real compliance is not storing PII, then you don't even need a cookie bar!

When the law defines 32 but numbers (IP addresses) as PII, it’s not terribly surprising to me that “real compliance” is not eagerly adopted.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#78

Post by smillbag » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #52

absolutelyrad wrote: post #5

"Chief of Advertising Integrity" does anyone take that title seriously? Forget advertising, Facebook and it's CEO himself has no integrity.

I can't find it now, but I remember a story from somebody in the Lean Manufacturing world about a place that was having safety problems, so they appointed somebody Safety Director. This signaled to everybody that safety was that one guy's problem, not theirs. Accidents went up further and stayed up until they got rid of the Safety Directory position and made everybody responsible for safety. That resonated for me bec…

That's such a funny story, and so predicate. I would love the source to this if it comes to anyones mind!

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#79

Post by nearbuy » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

KittenInABox wrote: post #34

dcgudeman wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, what did Mark Zuckerberg do that makes you think he has “no integrity”?

At least for me my impression of Mark Zuckerberg lowered significantly once I learned the details of him pressuring native hawaiian people via lawsuits from their ancestral lands so he can have an island to himself.

It sounds a bit less clear-cut than that. It seems that, through inheritance, 138 relatives each owned a tiny share of 2.35 acres of land, with one of the relatives, Carlos Andrade, owning a larger share and having been the only one living on the land. Andrade sued his relatives to force them to sell and compensate them for their shares. Zuckerberg sided with Andrade. I'm not sure of the details, but it sounds like he doesn't have the island to himself, since Andrade is living there, and it sounds like the other relatives weren't using the land.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#80

Post by smt88 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

EarthIsHome wrote: post #72

rossdavidh wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you're getting some downvotes, but I agree with you. Put another way, though: the problem is not Zuckerberg per se, it's the business model of advertising-supported, general-purpose social networks. If you took everybody out of Facebook and replaced them all with other equally qualified people, they would behave the same, as an organization. The problem is not Who, it's What. You can't "fix" Facebook, because t…

I think you're on the right track, but it's not just because it's an "advertising-supported" business model. It's the fundamental laws that govern our society: profit. Replace Zuckerberg, Bezos, et al. with anyone else, and the new CEOs' decisions will be bound by the same constraints.

Reddit isn't perfect, but it is run totally differently from Facebook, including: offering paid subscriptions, having an open API, and not trying to justify widespread surveillance as an ad-targeting tool.