A half-hour to learn Rust • Hacker News Board

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#181

Post by nitred » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #162

nitred wrote: post #161

As a Python programmer with limited experience with compiled languages, Rust code was more intimidating to read or look at than C++, Java or Go. After only an hour, I am overwhelmed by the sheer beauty and mature design of this language - it almost reads like Python or as well as any compiled language can. I cannot believe that I am smitten by Rust within an hour. Its features seem, obvious. My experience with Go was…

This podcast might be relevant: the creator of Flask who is now using Rust: https://realpython.com/podcasts/rpp/18/ Edit - actually I was probably thinking of this podcast with the same interviewee: https://rustacean-station.org/episode/004-rust-in-production...

Just started listenting to it. It's exactly what I was looking for, thank you. Armin Ronacher's opinion on such things would hold a lot weight in my head.

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#182

Post by eeZah7Ux » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

nitred wrote: post #161

As a Python programmer with limited experience with compiled languages, Rust code was more intimidating to read or look at than C++, Java or Go. After only an hour, I am overwhelmed by the sheer beauty and mature design of this language - it almost reads like Python or as well as any compiled language can. I cannot believe that I am smitten by Rust within an hour. Its features seem, obvious. My experience with Go was…

> I am overwhelmed by the sheer beauty and mature design of this language - it almost reads like Python

Sarcasm?

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#183

Post by eeZah7Ux » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

timhigins wrote: post #2

A half-hour to learn Rust Jan 27, 2020 · 51 minute read · rust maybe the site's reading time estimator is broken? sarcasm intended. But seriously, it is good to have people writing things like this.

> maybe the site's reading time estimator is broken? sarcasm intended.

It was not rewritten in rust?

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#184

Post by nobleach » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

the_duke wrote: post #174

ithrow wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

am overwhelmed by the sheer beauty and mature design of this language - it almost reads like Python or as well as any compiled language can. All those lifetime annotations are not sheer beauty or pretty, sure they are necessary but not nice to look at if you are comparing it to a higher level language.

You can write Rust code with almost no lifetine annotations. That's heavily dependent on the domain, of course. But for relatively simple function signatures they are usually inferred correctly, and you can often just clone instead of requiring references.

Yes, you can clone all day long and just reuse variable names as if you were writing JavaScript, but what does that do to your memory allocation?

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#185

Post by volta87 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

ithrow wrote: post #171

nitred wrote: post #161

As a Python programmer with limited experience with compiled languages, Rust code was more intimidating to read or look at than C++, Java or Go. After only an hour, I am overwhelmed by the sheer beauty and mature design of this language - it almost reads like Python or as well as any compiled language can. I cannot believe that I am smitten by Rust within an hour. Its features seem, obvious. My experience with Go was…

am overwhelmed by the sheer beauty and mature design of this language - it almost reads like Python or as well as any compiled language can. All those lifetime annotations are not sheer beauty or pretty, sure they are necessary but not nice to look at if you are comparing it to a higher level language.

I think that being able to write down the lifetimes in the language is beautiful.

You don't have to do it, but if you want to do it, being able to do so in a way that's verified and enforced by the toolchain beats doing so in a documentation comment.

Now every time I read a doc string saying that I need to "deepcopy" something in Python for some API usage pattern to work properly I cringe.

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#186

Post by gpm » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

nobleach wrote: post #184

the_duke wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can write Rust code with almost no lifetine annotations. That's heavily dependent on the domain, of course. But for relatively simple function signatures they are usually inferred correctly, and you can often just clone instead of requiring references.

Yes, you can clone all day long and just reuse variable names as if you were writing JavaScript, but what does that do to your memory allocation?

Most languages just clone all day long, it's not that bad, rust clones (like most languages) are just to the first reference counted pointer after all.

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#187

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

artursapek wrote: post #168

pjmlp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then try to write a GUI in Rust.

The state of that art is improving quickly: https://github.com/hecrj/iced

Doesn't do localization or integration with assistive technologies of the host platform, does it?

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#188

Post by christiansakai » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

nitred wrote: post #161

As a Python programmer with limited experience with compiled languages, Rust code was more intimidating to read or look at than C++, Java or Go. After only an hour, I am overwhelmed by the sheer beauty and mature design of this language - it almost reads like Python or as well as any compiled language can. I cannot believe that I am smitten by Rust within an hour. Its features seem, obvious. My experience with Go was…

Rust makes hard things easy and easy things hard.

Also reading Python code is easier (less syntax noise) on the eyes. The article above is very beginner Rust, and I won't rely on that to look at actual Rust code in the wild.

If you want to take a look at what actual Rust code in the wild, take for example, a web server Actix, and try to figure out what the documentation says.

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#189

Post by matt_kantor » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

AlexSW wrote: post #88

jackric wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which bit is the toilet seat?

The seat is to the right (the ( )) and the water tank (?) is on the left.

I made a visual: https://i.imgur.com/VgsDidE.jpg

Re: A half-hour to learn Rust

#190

Post by fasterthanlime » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

volta87 wrote: post #185

ithrow wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

am overwhelmed by the sheer beauty and mature design of this language - it almost reads like Python or as well as any compiled language can. All those lifetime annotations are not sheer beauty or pretty, sure they are necessary but not nice to look at if you are comparing it to a higher level language.

I think that being able to write down the lifetimes in the language is beautiful. You don't have to do it, but if you want to do it, being able to do so in a way that's verified and enforced by the toolchain beats doing so in a documentation comment. Now every time I read a doc string saying that I need to "deepcopy" something in Python for some API usage pattern to work properly I cringe.

That's one of the things that get me about Rust discourse: it seems that "Rust is pain in exchange for performance" is a common misconception. Rust is discipline in exchange for performance and correctness. A GC lets you be relatively worry-free as far as memory leaks go (and even then..) but it doesn't prevent a lot of the correctness problems the borrow checker would.

With a checker you're forced to think: do I really want to pass a copy/clone of this? Or do I want to let that function borrow it? Or borrow it mutably?