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My Experience at Apple

ex-apple-engineer.medium.com

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Re: My Experience at Apple

#541

Post by z3t4 »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #526
fortran77 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone was merged into another team working on something similar with new management. Meet the new boss same as the old boss I worked for Apple before Jobs died. He'd frequently have several teams working on the exact same thing, in secret, and then pick the team that met his goals the best. Sometimes the "losers" would be merged into the "winning" team, but never treated well by the winners.

Gosh - I hope that isn’t a prerequisite to greatness? How does someone even get the human and financial capital to run projects like this? I guess your first attempt with the first founding team has to ‘hit.’ Otherwise, how can you afford to triple headcount, management, etc?

For most larger companies an engineer salary, or any human labour for that matter, is very cheap. FAANG could pay 10x more if they had to, but they don't have to because no one else pays more.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#542

Post by AgentOrange1234 »

chihuahua wrote: post #531
justapassenger wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big difference is that other FAANGs have much less secretive inside culture. That of course doesn’t prevent abuse, and horrible experiences will happen everywhere. But it’s much easier to hide and develop pockets of abuse if everything you work on is top secret.

I've never been able to understand why Apple thinks they need to be so secretive. Most other companies do just fine without pretending that they're working on life-changing secrets that are worthless if they are leaked.

I speculate some reasons are:

1. Being able to reveal something new and surprising leads to a flurry of good press. Failing that, constant rumors about what they are working on is like free advertising.

2. Keeping something a secret until it is shipping gives competitors less time to react/plan.

3. Preventing your employees from publicly discussing what they are doing may make it harder to know whom to poach, and harder for folks who want to leave to sell themselves.

4. It is useful as a cultural tool: it brings employees together in sharing a secret, creating an in-group/out-group dynamic; it gives product launches a kind of mystery, makes them something special for employees to watch together and celebrate together.

5. It helps Apple keep control of the framing of a product and the narrative around its launch.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#543

Post by cambalache »

pembrook wrote: post #455
dreamcompiler wrote: post #212

Things new engineers don't know, but should: 1. HR doesn't work for you; they work to minimize liability for the company. If HR thinks the best way to accomplish that is to destroy your life, that's exactly what they will do. 2. Many SV companies, as well as groups within large, respected SV companies, only survive through exploitation. They exploit their customers, their workforce, or both. Exploitation means obtain…

You’re correct on point 1, but point 2 is overly pessimistic. The fact that the economy grows every year is proof alone that companies on the whole are generating value and not just exploiting people. The economy is not a zero sum game. The truth is, all companies, no matter how cool their branding is, are just a collection of mostly average people. The larger the company, the more average the workforce will be. This…

> The fact that the economy grows every year is proof alone that companies on the whole are generating value and not just exploiting people. The economy is not a zero sum game.

This does not make any sense. The economy in the colonial Americas grew exponentially PRECISELY due to the explotation of people.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#544

Post by M5x7wI3CmbEem10 »

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

may I ask what pays double that of FAANG?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#545

Post by citelao »

WalterBright wrote: post #508
aurelius wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good manager should.

You'll be much happier with the career results of taking care of this yourself rather than waiting for someone else to do it. I've seen too many people become embittered waiting for someone else.

I upvoted both this and the parent.

Without much experience in the industry, I would say that both perspectives are important:

The person most invested in your success is you, so leverage that and promote yourself.

But you absolutely deserve management and teammates who celebrate your accomplishments and help you get rewarded for them.

Discrimination and prejudice also affect this—it’s probably hard to advocate for yourself if your management just doesn’t believe you’re capable for some reason—but I’ve generally found solace in the synthesis of both attitudes.

Fight for yourself, but find people who fight with you. Maybe put it like this: if you yourself were a people manager, wouldn’t you want to advocate for your reports?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#547

Post by sum_numpty »

saagarjha wrote: post #409
worker767424 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being an early retail employee in the Bay Area, we had very close ties to Cupertino. I worked when Steve was still alive. Steve Jobs actually interacted with retail underlings?!

Can we please not call people who work in retail “underlings”?

Calm down, Karen.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#548

Post by cambalache »

ip26 wrote: post #478
Apocryphon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a tendency to give Apple a pass among the big companies. They sell actual products instead of you, the user('s data). Their logistical chain does not rely upon a system of (often fellow American) warehouse workers who are pushed to the breaking point. [The developing world workforce that actually assembles their products- that's another story, but bogus hoaxes like Mike Daisey's only add confusion and make t…

They're also hip, maintain some level of underdog cachet, and folks like their products. People wish they could be that, and tend to give a pass to the things they idolize. You might also imagine that inside a company made of money, there's no need for anyone to be a jerk.

> They're also hip

Yes

> folks like their products

Yes

> maintain some level of underdog cachet

???????

Re: My Experience at Apple

#549

Post by AgentOrange1234 »

ckocagil wrote: post #534
mijkal wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so sorry this happened to you. :,( I hope Tim Cook sees this and takes swift action to make things right with you, hold others accountable, and ensure processes are changed to prevent this from ever recurring.

...and why would he do any of those?

To defend Apple’s image as a progressive, innovative, diverse, compassionate company that values its employees and is a great place to work. Even if he does not care at all about this person, he at least has huge reasons to not want articles like this circulating among major programmer forums.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#550

Post by abraxas »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #526
fortran77 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone was merged into another team working on something similar with new management. Meet the new boss same as the old boss I worked for Apple before Jobs died. He'd frequently have several teams working on the exact same thing, in secret, and then pick the team that met his goals the best. Sometimes the "losers" would be merged into the "winning" team, but never treated well by the winners.

Gosh - I hope that isn’t a prerequisite to greatness? How does someone even get the human and financial capital to run projects like this? I guess your first attempt with the first founding team has to ‘hit.’ Otherwise, how can you afford to triple headcount, management, etc?

I think this is due to the exponential payoff in a success scenario. Especially in high tech where certain initiatives can have a “winner take all” effect. I find it completely unsurprising that internally the tech giants function like a cluster of startups competing against each other.

Capitalism is based on the idea of transplanting the survival of the fittest paradigm into the economy and that’s exactly how I’d expect it to look in practice. Especially as progress accelerates and massive wins become both scarcer and more impactful at the same time.

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