More proof that people who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
91–100 of 208 posts
Re: TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
#92The terminal hasn't changed much in 40 years because it very good at what it does, that is, allowing experts to get stuff done. One of the usability lessons of modern computing is that the mouse is a productivity killer. Having transitioned back to vi from TextMate, I have certainly found it to be true.
The author talks about how its a shame to give 2MM pixels to an 80 column terminal, but from what I've seen, developers are perfectly capable opening multiple terminal windows to view things like log files and running quick commands. Try that on a WYSE.
While I don't think I'd ever use this as a replacement for my terminal, I do think the "server" part of the architecture is interesting. What if you built a native OSX app to replace finder. That is something I'd use.
Re: TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
#93"At the end of the day, Unix just has bad usability"
I have to say I highly disagree with this statement but, I also disagree that there is anything wrong with the classic terminal. I find a full screen terminal with nothing but text as a thing of beauty. They remove all but the most essential details and work on a very simple common format (text).
In a way this kinda makes me think of Windows Power Shell, which is trying to replace the classic shell with a more object oriented shell, it has a lot of good ideas but in ways it brings more complexity to the issue than most Unix users are looking for. Seems like this project could probably take some ideas from Power Shell though.
I certainly have nothing against this guys work but it is not really a classic unix shell replacement and should probably not strive to be such a thing.
Re: TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
#94"At the end of the day, Unix just has bad usability" I have to say I highly disagree with this statement but, I also disagree that there is anything wrong with the classic terminal. I find a full screen terminal with nothing but text as a thing of beauty. They remove all but the most essential details and work on a very simple common format (text). In a way this kinda makes me think of Windows Power Shell, which is t…
Text is a simple format, but text with intrinsic formatting is most definitely not a simple format.
Re: TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
#95It's funny, his 'ls' by default prints out an information-sparse grid of icons (only showing 10 items with a horizontal scrollbar?), whereas when I use the command-line, I'm looking for exactly the opposite of a GUI - an information-dense table of text. I agree with the commenter that -r-xr-xr-x - or even 0555 - is far better than "you can't touch this" (which doesn't describe who can't touch it, and in what ways). H…
On the other hand, ls isn't showing you the file type, and will never show you content. And you're mixing presentation with content, which is poor engineering - see the guys coming up with regexs to handle time because the only way time is presented to them is as text, Good shells have prompted object pipeline based tools before - PoSH is only a few years old. And it's still possible for older tools to run with no de…
On the other hand, imagine being able to 'jump' into the output with a cursor, hit enter and open any file, or hit delete, or F2 to rename etc. From a UI point of view, it could be great (notwithstanding my other comments).
Re: TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
#96I find Unix usability standards generally pretty insane. Funny he should post this, as on the train today I was thinking of making a program I'd call 'SmartTerm' or something which would basically be a more usable, graphically augmented terminal for beginners (or people who just can't stand interfaces which depend on memorization and patience).
Some things I find nuts about the current terminal is OS X (at least the default behaviour) are:
- half the line which you need to write in is taken up by repetitive info like User, Time, and Directory
- put the currend directory somewhere useful like the title bar
- when i start to type a command, give me graphical autocompletion automatically (unless i switch it off), along with a note/tooltip explaining what the command does
- after i've typed command, give me a pane somewhere which explains what all the stupid flag options are and what they do
- give me another pane with an audit trail in plain english of what my commands have accomplished, and then give suggestions on how these could be accomplished using simpler shortcuts (especially in something like Vim. give me some help to learn the shortcuts as i work, FFS. on a GUI you look at the keyboard shortcuts beside the menu items, and get to know them naturally. this would also give you some confirmation that your command worked as expected, rather than just a blank prompt staring back at you
- let me highlight text with shift and arrow keys
Re: TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
#97The terminal hasn't changed much in 40 years because it very good at what it does, that is, allowing experts to get stuff done . One of the usability lessons of modern computing is that the mouse is a productivity killer. Having transitioned back to vi from TextMate, I have certainly found it to be true. The author talks about how its a shame to give 2MM pixels to an 80 column terminal, but from what I've seen, devel…
«One of the usability lessons of modern computing is that the mouse is a productivity killer.»
Actually, one of the usability lessons of modern computing is that the mouse makes you faster, but the keyboard makes you think you're faster.
reference: http://www.asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html
Re: TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
While, I understand your dislike of Vim, Vi, Nano, Emacs, etc. (I can't work in them for extend periods of time either do to hand problems) They remain essential tools for many programmers and system administrators. Sometimes, you don't want to have the file pulled down and edited in a local edit and pushed back even if it is seamless. The benefits of inplace editing on remote machines is invaluable. I think this is…
> Sometimes, you don't want to have the file pulled down and edited in a local edit and pushed back even if it is seamless. The benefits of inplace editing on remote machines is invaluable. The benefits of having your vim settings whenever you type 'vim' rather than whatever's on the server is invaluable, too. It's not an easy task to satisfy everyone, and I wouldn't expect TermKit too; nevertheless I'm excited to se…
If it's a server I plan on logging into more than once or twice, it's easy enough to pull down my git-managed dotfiles and have everything I come to expect.
Re: TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think my point is that we've all been so locked into these tools that we've become blind as to where their failing are. I wanted to start TermKit from a fresh slate and only slowly add bits of existing Unix to it, so I could make sure the resulting whole still made sense.
For me, as someone that does all his work in Windows and stays away from consoles as much as possible, this entire discussion is hilarious. I think your project is cool, it certainly is a fresh take on the console, but the minority of people that like the unix console will be very resistant to anything graphical, and the majority of people that prefer graphical interfaces will just wonder why the hell you still need…
The power is in knowing the shell. You can do things quickly and do exactly what you want if you know how to use it. No GUI can give you with the same speed and efficiency.
The learning curve is steep, I like your suggestion of 'exploring' the interface. I think this deserves more merit than making the shell glossy.
Re: TermKit - a graphical terminal replacement
#100"At the end of the day, Unix just has bad usability" I have to say I highly disagree with this statement but, I also disagree that there is anything wrong with the classic terminal. I find a full screen terminal with nothing but text as a thing of beauty. They remove all but the most essential details and work on a very simple common format (text). In a way this kinda makes me think of Windows Power Shell, which is t…
Text is a simple format, but text with intrinsic formatting is most definitely not a simple format.
yeah thats true, thats why I get why Power Shell took an approach of passing object around as apposed to just text. I think I was thinking more from a visual standpoint when I said that text is simple.