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Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

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Re: Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

#121

Post by GordonS »

I really love when I have strange dreams, especially when you go back into the same dream if you wafe briefly, giving you a moment to consider before it continues. I imagine it's unlikely there is any real meaning behind dreams, but I can't help but feel there must be sometimes, especially with some of the odder dreams.

The most disappointing thing about a good dream though, is how quickly memories of it fade away upon wakening - it's like trying to grab tendrils of smoke rising away.

Usually at best I manage to recall one or two small snippets, or something about the general theme, but every now and then - very rarely - more vivid details stick with me for a little longer.

Re: Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

#123

Post by mailslot »

sundarurfriend wrote: post #92

> dreams are primarily visual precisely because ... This is a central claim in the article that's just stated and taken for granted. In my experience, at least, dreams are not primarily visual. They have a visual component, but also a vague auditory component, a motor-experience (feeling of movement) component, etc., and all of those feel equally important. And most of all, there is a "felt experience" component that…

I’m able to consciously enter dreams from waking state. Basically, lucid dreaming on hard mode. Like going through sleep paralysis on purpose.

Dreams are so close to waking state, I’m always in awe when I successfully transition. Touch, taste, smell, every sense. It’s like waking reality, but with god mode.

That said, vision is really really weird. If you pull your sight into your dream body (hard to explain), then it’s just like you’d expect. It’s like it’s possible to see multiple perspectives at once, and it’s visual, but it’s all like one continuous field of view. Sometimes I don’t even really notice that I’m looking forward, backward, and from above all at once.

When I’m just playing around, I like to smash things and jump so high that I fly above the clouds, feeling the cold air above and the weightlessness at the apex. It’s no more visual primary than waking, IMHO.

Re: Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

#124

Post by rmilk »

dwighttk wrote: post #14
pixelbash wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally some b6/b12 supplements have given both me and my partner very intense dreams and vivid recall. No idea what the mechanism might be (Or if it's a preservative/etc) but potentially an interesting data point?

I’ve heard Stilton cheese has a similar effect. (Haven’t tried) Also whatever malaria drug I took was supposed to have intense dreams as a side effect. (Don’t remember any)

Funny that some medications have these dream effects. An uncommon side effect of Montelukast is vivid nightmares and sleep paralysis. It’s a relativity common asthma control medication, but was recently moved to a not-recommended status for younger people because of this side effect. My personal experience was pretty intense nightmares 1-2 times a week if I took it before bed. Taking early in the day stopped this side effect.

Re: Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

#125

Post by surgecoach »

ben_w wrote: post #82
syrrim wrote: post #11

This doesn't explain why consistently interrupting REM sleep will lead to death. Also, the exposition suggests that this is somehow particularly necessary for visual information because we can't see while sleeping. They originally suggest that this is because it's dark at night, but later modify it to be because one's eyes are closed while sleeping. However, to my knowledge, very little hearing is done while one is s…

> consistently interrupting REM sleep will lead to death. I’ve seen this claim many times, but I’ve not seen any studies that say “no [REM] sleep causes you to die”. The closest I can find are studies in the form “less [REM] sleep correlates with all causes of death to go up” - it’s not like you can literally kill someone just by keeping them awake for a month. https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2020/study-links-poor-dre…

Do we take Star Trek as a authoritative source? lack of rem sleep leading to violence, anarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Terrors_(Star_Trek:_The_...

Re: Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

#126

Post by [deleted] »

surgecoach wrote: post #125
ben_w wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> consistently interrupting REM sleep will lead to death. I’ve seen this claim many times, but I’ve not seen any studies that say “no [REM] sleep causes you to die”. The closest I can find are studies in the form “less [REM] sleep correlates with all causes of death to go up” - it’s not like you can literally kill someone just by keeping them awake for a month. https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2020/study-links-poor-dre…

Do we take Star Trek as a authoritative source? lack of rem sleep leading to violence, anarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Terrors_(Star_Trek:_The_...

[deleted]

Re: Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

#127

Post by joveian »

The evidence doesn't support as close a relationship between dreaming and REM sleep as the authors suggest. See:

Solms. 2000. Dreaming and REM sleep are controlled by different brain mechanisms. BEHAVIORAL AND BRAIN SCIENCES (2000) 23, 793–1121.

https://neuro.bstu.by/ai/To-dom/My_research/Papers-2.1-done/...

»It is generally accepted that NREM mentation that is indistiguishable from REM dreaming does indeed occur. Monroe et al.’s (1965) widely cited study suggests that approximately 10–30% of NREM dreams are indistinguishable from REM dreams (Recht-schaffen 1973). Even Hobson accepts that 5–10% of NREM dream reports are “indistinguishable by any criterion from those obtained from post-REM awakenings” (Hobson 1988b, p. 143). If we adjust this conservative fig- ure to account for the fact that NREM sleep occupies ap- proximately 75% of total sleep time, this implies that roughly one quarter of all REM-like dreams occur outside of REM sleep.«

A recent reference that discusses this is:

Nicholas and Ruby. 2020. Dreams, Sleep, and Psychotropic Drugs. Front Neurol. 2020; 11: 507495.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7674595/

»Regarding the link between dreaming and neurophysiology, 60 years of debates has been necessary to get rid of the rapid eye movement (REM) sleep hypothesis of dreaming, and it is now acknowledged by a majority of dream researchers, be they neuroscientist or not, that REM sleep is neither necessary nor sufficient to get a dream report and that dream reports can be obtained at the awakening of any sleep stage (2, 7, 9–12). It is also now clear that the complexity and story-like characteristics of dream reports are related to sleep stages but also, and even more so, to circadian rhythms leading to more vivid and complex dreams in the morning than in the early night [e.g., (13–15)].«

Re: Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

#128

Post by ford_o »

mailslot wrote: post #123
sundarurfriend wrote: post #92

> dreams are primarily visual precisely because ... This is a central claim in the article that's just stated and taken for granted. In my experience, at least, dreams are not primarily visual. They have a visual component, but also a vague auditory component, a motor-experience (feeling of movement) component, etc., and all of those feel equally important. And most of all, there is a "felt experience" component that…

I’m able to consciously enter dreams from waking state. Basically, lucid dreaming on hard mode. Like going through sleep paralysis on purpose. Dreams are so close to waking state, I’m always in awe when I successfully transition. Touch, taste, smell, every sense. It’s like waking reality, but with god mode. That said, vision is really really weird. If you pull your sight into your dream body (hard to explain), then i…

How do you pull it off?

Re: Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

#129

Post by irrational »

tamrix wrote: post #57
irrational wrote: post #56

To the best of my knowledge, I’ve never dreamed (I’m almost 50 years old). I’ve always wondered what that means about my brain. Is there a medical or psychological label for people who don’t dream?

Everybody dreams unless you're brain dead during sleep. It's more about if you can recall your dreams. Some medications and /or weed can prevent dream recall.

I’m pretty sure I haven’t been on medication (other than the occasional aspirin) or weed for the past 50 years. Something natural has prevented dream recall my entire life.

Re: Why do we dream? A new theory on how it protects our brains

#130

Post by irrational »

air7 wrote: post #64
irrational wrote: post #56

To the best of my knowledge, I’ve never dreamed (I’m almost 50 years old). I’ve always wondered what that means about my brain. Is there a medical or psychological label for people who don’t dream?

Healthy people dream several times a night and don't remember most of their dreams upon waking. Have someone monitor your sleep and wake you up when observing REM. There's a good chance you'll remember the dream you're currently in, and feel the disappointment of not knowing how it ends...

Well, I’ve never had dream recall. You can’t miss something you’ve never had, so I don’t really care enough to get it checked out.
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