> Apple was my first job. A dream that came true after many years of hard work...
I might be reading into this, but "dream jobs" are likely to disappoint. I've seen it happen a few times.
My Experience at Apple
321–330 of 840 posts
Re: My Experience at Apple
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think they mean that you should document everything, then express your concerns to HR in a non-confrontational way, then quietly bring your documentation to a lawyer if nothing changes. The documentation is your "plan B" which HR doesn't need to know about.
Documenting everything is good advice, but it can give false hope to people in these situations. Hiring a lawyer is never as easy, cheap, or as quick as it sounds from internet comments. It's easy to armchair quarterback these situations and talk about hypothetically lawyering up, but what's the endgame? Suing your company won't suddenly convert a toxic job into a happy job, regardless of the outcome. Settlements, if…
Good lawyers won't take cases that don't appear winnable from the start.
Very false. Generally, the difference between a good lawyer and a bad lawyer is that the good lawyer will counsel the client about the chances of not winning the case, especially after discovery has concluded, while a bad lawyer won't.
If the the winnability of a case was apparent at the start, there wouldn't be a case as the parties would settle before a formal lawsuit was filed. This happens very frequently, especially for labor cases where the employee has documented instances of harassment.
A lot of cases that appear to be "winnable" at the beginning turn out not to be winnable based on evidence that becomes available during discovery, and a lot of cases that didn't appear to be winnable turn out to be slam dunks after discovery. Most of the landmark cases today were cases that didn't appear "winnable" at the start (see, e.g., the DuPont and Erin Brokovich cases).
Moreover, for most cases of this type (and generally for almost all civil cases involving individual torts), lawyers work on a contingency basis for plaintiffs, so they only get paid if they win. The only lawyers that won't handle civil torts for individual clients on a contingency basis are the bad ones who don't expect to win, or the truly amazing ones that charge fixed or hourly fees because they're so good that they can resolve the case without doing the amount of work that would justify a 30% or 40% fee.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#323It’s a long, rambling post with some fairly vague and difficult to falsify accusations. I have no connections to Apple (other than as a consumer), but I could not wade through the article enough to determine if I thought there was an actual smoking gun. I suspect the story would be much more powerful if it were 1/5 as long and stuck to the material facts.
Yeah, I wanted to read it more carefully but it seemed to be a long litany of real or perceived psychological abuse. Maybe I too missed a smoking gun. What I read described an Apple that is completely alien to me. I have never seen or even heard of anything even remotely like this team or the behavior described.
> long litany of real or perceived psychological abuse. Maybe I too missed a smoking gun.
Its staring you in the face. How can anyone be allowed to pull off half of that shit? I mean if you are _knowingly_ causing someone to take beta blockers, you've got to have a long hard look at yourself.
I have made mistakes, fortunately early in my career. I made a colleague cry, I thought it was a "bit of fun" but I was being a horrid shit. I don't shout at work anymore. Its a sign that I've lost the argument, failed to see reason, or more often just plain wrong.
To allow others to cause people to cry or shout is frankly unforgivable. Especially if they are senior and its aimed at a young'un. Yes, they might be annoying, or a dipshit. but its up to you to guide them or move them on. Not play with like a cat with a half dead bird.
in short: enigneers don't let other people be abusive dicks.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it has to do purely with visibility outside the company. Visibility within the company is just as, if not more, important. A common theme I've noticed regarding this in stories from Apple is people covering up/scapegoating failing projects by lying to management, creating fake reports, fabricating data, etc. The con seems able to be kept up for a long time because there is only one person you need to fo…
Is there a collection of stories like this about Apple where you have been able to see a common theme?
I have just seen a lot of posts about this on Blind. Try searching Apple + toxic.
https://www.teamblind.com/post/Miserable-and-depressed-at-Ap... https://www.teamblind.com/post/I-am-full-of-Hate-vOCmEpjn
Many bad posts about IS&T as well. I swear I've seen at least two very similar posts to the OP about Apple (maybe even written by the same person) although I'm having trouble finding it.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#325[deleted]
Re: My Experience at Apple
#326Downvote me if you want, but I have had offers and accepted jobs at 2 companies, which first week was a joke, I left (Blue Jeans and Twilio). I didn't care and continue interviewing, I just don't take people BS and unprofessionalism, some have VISA or other needs that need to put up with this non-sense. Just tell people to go hell.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#327The ghost of Steve Jobs is everywhere there. The stories and myths mutate and multiply. That virus finds host in the dark corners of suffering that most people have and their only expiation is to inflict it.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#328Honestly why do people think that cannot happen at Apple ? That kind of thing can happen in any company. Apple is thousands of employees, it only requires a few bad people to create a situation like that. I'm not sure though, creating a post like that is the best thing. I don't know what exists in the US, but in France, you can sue your employer for free (You don't even need a lawyer), and if you are able to show a f…
> I don't know what exists in the US, but in France, you can sue your employer for free (You don't even need a lawyer)...
In the U.S. there are many employment lawyers who will represent harmed employees on contingency, meaning that they will only be paid if the case results in a judgment or settlement for the employee. An individual can technically sue without a lawyer but that is usually a terrible idea.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#329Things new engineers don't know, but should: 1. HR doesn't work for you; they work to minimize liability for the company. If HR thinks the best way to accomplish that is to destroy your life, that's exactly what they will do. 2. Many SV companies, as well as groups within large, respected SV companies, only survive through exploitation. They exploit their customers, their workforce, or both. Exploitation means obtain…
HR doesn't work for you That's what I've learned too. HR is an extension of the legal department. To be fair, their true job is to treat humans as resources. These days, they're sometimes rebranded as the "People Team"!
These days, they're sometimes rebranded as the "People Team"!
Sounds like it might be a minor improvement, but I'm not hopeful.
I detest the phrase "human resources." I am not a resource. I am not a box of pencils, a copy machine, or a long ton of bituminous coal to be consumed by the company. I am a human being.
"Personnel" wasn't so bad. I'm OK with that because I am a person. But that was before Human Resources departments became warehouses for the legions of yoga moms who think they're being rewarded for being slightly above average, when the reality is it's another industrial make-work program to keep the drones from revolting.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#330The ghost of Steve Jobs is everywhere. That virus finds host in the dark corners of everyone's suffering and can only be expiated by sacrifice of others.