My Experience at Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My Experience at Apple

#191

Post by jariel » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #5

It’s a long, rambling post with some fairly vague and difficult to falsify accusations. I have no connections to Apple (other than as a consumer), but I could not wade through the article enough to determine if I thought there was an actual smoking gun. I suspect the story would be much more powerful if it were 1/5 as long and stuck to the material facts.

This is a very poor characterization.

It's not the job of junior engineers from foreign countries to write perfect Medium posts.

Also the article was chock full of facts, there were facts in every sentence.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#192

Post by fluffy87 » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

polote wrote: post #17

Honestly why do people think that cannot happen at Apple ? That kind of thing can happen in any company. Apple is thousands of employees, it only requires a few bad people to create a situation like that. I'm not sure though, creating a post like that is the best thing. I don't know what exists in the US, but in France, you can sue your employer for free (You don't even need a lawyer), and if you are able to show a f…

The fact that HR and senior management where in on it makes it systemic.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#193

Post by throwaway29303 » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

This is awful. I'm sorry that happened to you. However,

  If Apple refuse to take actions, I will interview with major media outlets describing the experience in more details and I will release a list of all individuals involved from senior management to the HR director and all the evidence as public record.

You're wasting your time if you think they're going to do anything with this kind of approach. Get a lawyer first before thinking on doing any of that, though.

And let this be a reminder to everyone else that HR isn't there to help you - it's there to help the company.

In this kind of environment it almost feels like one needs to record everything that's happening in order to defend themselves. Cops use cameras, maybe it's time for employees to start wearing them too. Maybe.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#194

Post by nojvek » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

What surprises me is how abusive Amazon and Apple can get to their employees while ship fantastic products to their customers.

May be the whole you need great talent and treat them well isn’t true. You just need to treat them well enough so they don’t leave and pressure them enough so they don’t crumble.

At the end of the day, management is about getting the most out of your employees and that’s what they are doing right?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#195

Post by vincentmarle » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

This post reminds me of the first episode of the HBO show "Industry", where (spoiler alert) the workaholic guy dies of having a panic attack after discovering a typo.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#196

Post by jaChEWAg » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

ddevault wrote: post #137

If a company's value starts with a "B" (or... ugh... a "T"), they won't care about you. You should not give them anything of your life, because it's worth next to nothing to them. Mega-corps are life sucking leeches on employees, customers, and society as a whole. Everyone. How many horror stories is it going to take? Don't get duped by the glamour. Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Facebook, Uber, none of them are g…

This!!!! It's easy to get the wrong idea about these companies and that it must be a dream to be working there but stories like these prove exactly the opposite and realistic view.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#197

Post by sfblah » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #139

polote wrote: post #17

Honestly why do people think that cannot happen at Apple ? That kind of thing can happen in any company. Apple is thousands of employees, it only requires a few bad people to create a situation like that. I'm not sure though, creating a post like that is the best thing. I don't know what exists in the US, but in France, you can sue your employer for free (You don't even need a lawyer), and if you are able to show a f…

I downvoted you because you are complaining about downvoting.

Meh. I upvoted him to cancel out your downvote. Who cares if people complain about downvotes.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#198

Post by PragmaticPulp » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

meekrohprocess wrote: post #173

zcw100 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've clearly never had this happen to you. Go ahead, document everything, it's not going to matter. That's not how this works. If you do that they'll either say, "Ok, I see what you've got there. But that's not what we're here to discuss. We're here to discuss your negative attitude" or they can look at your documentation and say, "So what were you charging the time you were doing all this documentation to?", or, "…

I think they mean that you should document everything, then express your concerns to HR in a non-confrontational way, then quietly bring your documentation to a lawyer if nothing changes. The documentation is your "plan B" which HR doesn't need to know about.

Documenting everything is good advice, but it can give false hope to people in these situations. Hiring a lawyer is never as easy, cheap, or as quick as it sounds from internet comments.

It's easy to armchair quarterback these situations and talk about hypothetically lawyering up, but what's the endgame? Suing your company won't suddenly convert a toxic job into a happy job, regardless of the outcome. Settlements, if they ever arrive, are rarely significant enough to make a financial difference unless someone has a truly home-run protected class harassment case with hard evidence (not just verbal conversations recited from memory).

Good lawyers won't take cases that don't appear winnable from the start. However, there are plenty of bad lawyers who will happily give people false hope about their chances and then bill as much as they can get away with before the client gives up.

"Plan B" should always be to find another job ASAP, if possible. (Not easy in the author's case).

Re: My Experience at Apple

#199

Post by oblio » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

corobo wrote: post #141

polote wrote: post #17

Honestly why do people think that cannot happen at Apple ? That kind of thing can happen in any company. Apple is thousands of employees, it only requires a few bad people to create a situation like that. I'm not sure though, creating a post like that is the best thing. I don't know what exists in the US, but in France, you can sue your employer for free (You don't even need a lawyer), and if you are able to show a f…

> EDIT: To the people who downvote me, seriously why ? I can't speak for others but me personally it was because you dismissed the problem then started talking about what would happen in France. Essentially the comment added nothing all said and done Edit: To the downvoters of this , naw I'm kidding. Have at it.

Why isn't his comment about France useful? That's how we improve, by seeing what others do better.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#200

Post by GeorgeTirebiter » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

rmk wrote: post #151

exApple-anon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some extra tidbits that didn't make it in because the edit timer ran out: - Despite the big release and herculean efforts, both of us were paid a fraction of our target bonus. This was the day I decided to move jobs. - I eventually grew some balls and told Apple to (a) pay me 2.5x during overtime (b) hire SREs for this critical service, or (c) go fuck themselves. They chose (c), which worked alright because our servi…

- The primary lesson I learnt is that it doesn't matter if you work hard. Nobody notices, and even if they do you will likely not get anything out of it. Do your job, but don't kill yourself over it. Work-life balance is king. This has been my experience as well. Nowadays I work hard only while most of the following are true: - I'm making top dollar (good salary + equity value is high) - Work is interesting (somethin…

Wow, Great List! The last one (juniors calling the shots) really hit home; when I worked in , I was ultimately standing on the shoulder of midgets.

The worse part? As a CS grad, I knew how to do better, but: nobody with the power to change things understood how or why what I was suggesting was better(!).

I've long thought about this afterward, and concluded it's that 'my world' (which includes a lot of experience, and facility with Math) required me to study a lot and learn a lot; and these 'coders' simply did not have the background to understand what I was trying to teach them. I would have had to fill in several semesters in order to get my points across. Yes, I left. (And yes I tried simplifying - but that only goes so far.)