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My Experience at Apple

ex-apple-engineer.medium.com

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Re: My Experience at Apple

#21

Post by reactordev »

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

Sadly, you can fill in the blank with any FAANG company with this story. I’ve heard it a thousand times. Toxic management. Sorry you went through that, sorry that was your first taste of engineering out of college. Glad you stuck with it.

It’s a tough spot to be. Do you roll over and do the job your being yelled at to do even though you know any concessions are BS? Or like the senior folks, do you walk? It’s a really hard choice.

Does Apple not have manager feedback mechanisms?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#22

Post by newbie578 »

I have to ask, why is it so hard to criticize or show Apple in a negative light on HN?

If this was a post thrashing Google, it would already have over 300 upvotes, and "necessary" comments how there are already people who are "de-Googling" their life...

I mean there are already skeptic comments regarding the author's intentions and experience?

The fact is that out of all FAA(M)NG companies, work experience in Apple is by far the least known online, some might even say it has tendencies with a cult...

Re: My Experience at Apple

#23

Post by dwardu »

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

If this is true, it’s really sad, I’ve read the whole thing. I had an experience, not as bad as yours but I know the feeling.

I really hope you will go public about this experience and share it, Apple aren’t the “virtuous” company as they pretend to be.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#24

Post by systemvoltage »

bredren wrote: post #20

No way to say if this is a legit story, but I have seen this kind of thing at Intel, a subsidiary of comScore and a subsidiary of Siemens. Toxic workplaces exist, and toxic teams within divisions exist. When I saw this stuff, I was too young and inexperienced to recognize bad behavior and recognize my own power to go fish for something else. I did not have immigration issues to think about though, which adds a whole…

Nation states and adversaries can also fabricate these stories, especially since the damage to western brands is best done at the root - attraction of talent and sowing doubts.

On the other hand, it sounds believable that these things happen in a big Corp like Apple.

Not trying to be conspiratorial, just to keep in mind - what you see on HN should be taken with a clear headed mind that some of this public information isn’t verified by a reputable newspaper with any anon source.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#25

Post by tokamak-teapot »

There are areas like this in every company, from 8 person businesses to large corporates.

For those who find themselves in one, the biggest stress comes from the fact it’s hard to leave. The abusers know this, of course, and they know that the more abuse they pile on, the harder it gets to leave.

There is no easy answer, but I’ve seen it done to many people and those who’ve come out of it okay are those who just left. They had to get another job, yes, but in many cases the company where the abuse occurred is no longer having fun when the victim leaves, so they’ll just respond to a reference request with ‘yes they worked here from X to Y with this title’ and you’ll never have to deal with them again.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#26

Post by hertzrat »

reactordev wrote: post #21
exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

Sadly, you can fill in the blank with any FAANG company with this story. I’ve heard it a thousand times. Toxic management. Sorry you went through that, sorry that was your first taste of engineering out of college. Glad you stuck with it. It’s a tough spot to be. Do you roll over and do the job your being yelled at to do even though you know any concessions are BS? Or like the senior folks, do you walk? It’s a really…

Does anybody really want to be “the person who criticizes his or her managers,” in an official on-the-books capacity, in a context where your job is already being threatened?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#27

Post by tdhz77 »

I must try and understand my bias towards certain tech companies. When somebody says something bad about Facebook I instantly believe, but for some reason I had to really dig into this Apple engineer and it took me longer to believe them. Truth is harder to discern than I had thought.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#28

Post by EliRivers »

nikivi wrote: post #6
itg wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't found much of a correlation between company culture and the quality of products they ship.

So you can have the experiences as described in the article across all areas of the company with everyone staying in line and still doing their 'best work'?

Seems unlikely, doesn't it? I suspect it's not true. This guy clearly wasn't producing his 'best work'. The rest of the team, from his description, doesn't seem very competent.

Does your question presuppose that everyone is somehow magically doing their 'best work'? If so, do you have any evidence of that? Lots of companies get by with shitty cultures and low-productivity employees.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#30

Post by exApple-anon »

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

Some extra tidbits that didn't make it in because the edit timer ran out:

- Despite the big release and herculean efforts, both of us were paid a fraction of our target bonus. This was the day I decided to move jobs.

- I eventually grew some balls and told Apple to (a) pay me 2.5x during overtime (b) hire SREs for this critical service, or (c) go fuck themselves. They chose (c), which worked alright because our service was pretty stable.

- The primary lesson I learnt is that it doesn't matter if you work hard. Nobody notices, and even if they do you will likely not get anything out of it. Do your job, but don't kill yourself over it. Work-life balance is king.

- Only my first manager at Apple was an asshole. My last manager was a kind and genial person.

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