Bitcoin is a disaster • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#901

Post by arcticbull » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

wolco2 wrote: post #890

arcticbull wrote: post #813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oooh the rarity of owning a some digital magic beans, right, thanks I'll pass.

Are they magic beans or just beans? A bitcoin address gives you a unique global address decentralizated that funds can be sent to. There is utility to that function. Using your description the internet is a magic place faeries built that provides no usefulness because it's virtual.

No, Bitcoin provides no value because it's bad at everything it tries to be. It's a bad store of value (-86% swings 3x in the last few years), it's a bad currency (7tx/sec) and it's bad for the environment (as much power consumption as Chile).

The internet provides utility. Bitcoin provides speculation and crime.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#902

Post by sunshinerag » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

rualca wrote: post #844

sunshinerag wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh what is this very specific definition of what money is does the non-random guy on internet have?

> oh what is this very specific definition of what money is does the non-random guy on internet have? Each and every single random guy on the internet who wants to buy stuff with money cares about money, and the properties that allow something to work as money. Specifically, properties like being stable in its value within the market, and reliable both as a means of deferred payments and meet debts. Bitcoin, or any c…

>> Bitcoin, or any cryptocurrency, is nothing of the sort. Far from it.

For some random guys on the internet. yes. Some other guys are using it without waiting for it to be everything the previous system had. (deferred payments etc.).

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#903

Post by sunshinerag » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

bluedevil2k wrote: post #249

sunshinerag wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh yes it does, it has crashed more than 2000% vs Bitcoin in a decade.

That’s completely wrong. You would never say “the US dollar has crashed compared to Microsoft stock“. That’s a dumb comparison to compare a currency to an investment. The dollar has been mostly stable the past 10 years. A gallon of milk is still around $3.50

why are you comparing a currency (bitcoin) to a stock.

USD vs Bitcoin is a comparison of currency.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#904

Post by ric2b » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #882

ric2b wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's alright, there is no coercion to use BTC.

I have no idea what that statement is supposed to mean or prove lol.

Nothing, just a polite way of responding "nobody cares" to "thanks I'll pass."

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#905

Post by ric2b » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #881

ric2b wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think about what other technology is 12 years old you’d call “nascent” Cars, Steam engines, Airplanes, Trains, the Internet, Radio, Phones, Mobile phones, Smart phones, Cinema, TV's, basically anything that is actually new technology? I actually can't think of any new technology that reached maturity within 12 years of it's original prototype. > The first ETF launched in 1993, ETF's are a contract, they're not tech…

What technology do you use from 2008 that hasn't changed at all since then, and is also considered nascent?

I don't know but Bitcoin is definitely not it, it's seen multiple large improvements over the years.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#906

Post by ric2b » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

jt2190 wrote: post #876

ric2b wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I pay 0.005 USD to my friend?

If useful, the US Department of the Treasury can issue a coin or bill with a value of any denomination, including .005 USD, and so is “infinitely divisible”. Bitcoin divisibility is limited, by design, to 0.00000001 BTC (1 Satoshi) Whether this is “enough” is very difficult to answer definitively. If the demand for BTC is greater than the supply, the value of BTC will rise until supply and demand reach equilibrium. I…

> If useful, the US Department of the Treasury can issue a coin or bill with a value of any denomination, including .005 USD, and so is “infinitely divisible”.

And how much does that cost? I bet it's more than 5 cents.

> Bitcoin divisibility is limited, by design, to 0.00000001 BTC (1 Satoshi)

Not by design, that's an implementation details that can easily be changed in the future if 1 sat starts to become valuable enough to make a difference.

> and trades involving BTC slow or stop completely.

Do you have an example of a single commodity in the history of humanity that simply stopped being traded because it became "too valuable"?

I can't even understand how that makes sense, if it's valuable some people will want to sell it and get something that is more useful to them, like a house, a car, whatever. People don't commonly decide to hold an asset until their death bed.

> But what happens to the “store of value” part of BTC if it is no longer the “medium of exchange”?

What happened to Gold?

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#907

Post by mbajkowski » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

yourapostasy wrote: post #562

keithwhor wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. This is super interesting. Can I rephrase to make sure I understand? What you're saying is that; due to debt issuance in the US, it's hard for commodities and consumer goods to be priced efficiently. I interpret "confusing price signals" to mean that e.g. Apple can charge $1k for an iPhone and sell out to families who wouldn't typically be able to afford it, but the price of bread remains the same. Your medic…

> I interpret "confusing price signals" to mean that e.g. Apple can charge $1k for an iPhone and sell out to families who wouldn't typically be able to afford it, but the price of bread remains the same. It is more an interplay between wages and price signals of consumer goods and services than between price signals of separate commodities and consumer goods. Consumer debt (primarily credit card, but also HELOC) dist…

This is very informative. During the financial crises of 2007 to 2010 about 3 to 4M properties went into foreclosure. I have not looked into statistics of home ownership vs rent for those impacted by covid, but given the number of infected you stated and if there are long term care requirements, could this lead to another large set of foreclosures? Unlike last time though, the housing supply currently seems fairly tight in many areas, so a large pricing collapse downward seems not nearly as likely.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#908

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

ric2b wrote: post #862

ashtonkem wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re kind of sidestepping my point. Yes, it’s a good idea to keep your coins off the exchange, for all the reasons you’ve provided. The issue is that keeping your money off exchange is far less convenient, which is exactly why most people keep their couns on exchanges despite the risks. If the Bitcoin community in general wants people to stop getting hacked on exchanges, they need to provide more convenient alterna…

If some people like to leave their house unlocked because it's convenient it's not my duty to make them a more convenient door lock, it's quite enough to warn them about the dangers and let them make their own decisions. It's not like using a wallet is hard or inconvenient, it's just an extra step, like reaching for your keys before entering your house. But there can certainly be a business opportunity there, sure.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#909

Post by ric2b » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #897

ric2b wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If some people like to leave their house unlocked because it's convenient it's not my duty to make them a more convenient door lock, it's quite enough to warn them about the dangers and let them make their own decisions. It's not like using a wallet is hard or inconvenient, it's just an extra step, like reaching for your keys before entering your house. But there can certainly be a business opportunity there, sure.

This is exactly my point. To you it seems so easy, you have no idea why others don’t do it. Yet the fact that others aren’t doing it enough implies that it isn’t easy for everyone else, which is why the repeated advice given to non-techies isn’t working.

> To you it seems so easy, you have no idea why others don’t do it.

Oh, I know, it's because they haven't tried using a wallet yet. That's the biggest hurdle, choosing one and actually setting it up. After that it's about as convenient as the exchange.

A lot of people trust exchanges way too much, and so they don't see a reason to do any extra steps until they get burned.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#910

Post by glitchc » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

everfree wrote: post #564

glitchc wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need most to agree. Just the basic majority (50%+). And of course that’s exactly what the major mining consortiums will do: Collude to increase the limit when it’s reached. After all, the rewards are in the mining, not the transaction fee.

> You don’t need most to agree. Just the basic majority (50%+). This is a common misconception about how consensus works. Everyone on the network has to agree, anyone who doesn't agree by definition won't be on the same network. They won't be able to receive the same fork of bitcoin that everyone else is sending.

On the contrary: Consensus is defined precisely at 50%+, not 100% as you imply. In Bitcoin, the longest chain wins, therefore any chain with 50%+ support of the total mining power will inevitably end up with the longest chain.

Forks are occurring all the time at the apex of the chain. They wither and die slowly as 50%+ miners accept successive blocks as the next block. That’s why most exchanges and users wait for six blocks on average to deem the transaction settled.