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UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

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Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#151

Post by tpmx »

spzb wrote: post #138
tpmx wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got access to the EU's internal market without tariffs (except for financial services). The EU key people stated for a very long time - access to the internal EU market cannot be decoupled from the free movement of people. But still, you won that. All because you gave access to french fishers to some fishing waters. I think this bribe to one of the EU partners has been the key impetus for a lot of renewed EU resi…

Which is less than we had before. Also we now have non tariff barriers including a load more red tape bureaucracy even when sending things from one part of the U.K. to another thanks to the Irish Sea border

You also have less obligations. Whilst still having access to the EU internal market.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#152

Post by mattmanser »

alastor2020 wrote: post #128
dmje wrote: post #15

Yay. Now we're free. Oh wait, no, it's just that absolutely everything got harder, more expensive, more nationalistic, more pathetic and sad. It's all incredibly depressing. Here's hoping our kids manage to vote us back in as soon as those Tory f's are out.

- Tory f's are out Is that language really necessary? Such divisive language doesn't help the debate at all. As mentioned below, it's also totally incorrect. Labour heartlands voted massively for leave. Labour and Tories went into the election saying they would honour the referendum vote. Tories cleaned up an 80 seat majority in December 2019 winning many Labour seats campaigning on the goal to get Brexit done. Brexi…

"Cleaned up"? They got just 43% of the popular vote!

It's even more ridiculous than America. The whole thing's rigged, 60% of the country didn't want the Tories handling this and somehow they have an 80 seat majority!

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#153

Post by ben_w »

rhexs wrote: post #102
noncoml wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visit UK often because of family ties. The most frequent answer I get when I ask people why they voted to leave is that foreigners come over and take their jobs and put a strain on NHS, vaguely referencing the influx of Polish immigrants they got when Poland entered the EU. So maybe not racists, but xenophobes for sure.

Does wanting one’s own country to focus on its citizens first make one a xenophobe?

Blaming foreigners for ills they do not cause is essentially, perhaps even literally, what the word “xenophobic” means, and migrants to the UK are collectively blamed for things they do not cause.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#154

Post by galvin »

seibelj wrote: post #23

This could be very bad or it could be very good. The chains of EU centralized bureaucracy are off, now the UK can chart their own destiny (hopefully for the better).

Could you describe those chains? Specifically, which EU regulations have been holding the UK back?

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#155

Post by runarberg »

azornathogron wrote: post #136
runarberg wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic we would expect the German states to vote them self out of the German federation, Scotland and Wales to vote them self out of the UK, Nigeria to break apart, etc. And not only that we should expect it to happen with hostility towards the old nation, e.g. no trade unions after independence (unlike e.g. Catalonia not only voting them self out of Spain, but also out of the EU). However that seems not be ha…

> However that seems not be happening, nor does there seem to be any will towards it. I don't know about your other examples, but there is definitely some will toward Scotland voting themselves out of the UK. There was already a referendum about it a few years ago, and there has been more talk again recently since Scottish voters didn't want Brexit and many would love for Scotland to be able to break from the UK and…

Yeah I did think of that as I was writing this response, but there is a difference though. As I note in the Catalonia example the sentiment is not tribalism as people generally want to retain relations with the foreign neighbors post independence (e.g. I bet most Scots want to rejoin EU post independence).

I bet even most people voting for Brexit didn’t want this hard “we are on our own, and we don’t care for nobody” type Brexit as you would expect if tribalism prevailed (as evident that most people even in favor of hard no deal Brexit still favor CANZUK).

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#156

Post by rsynnott »

ur-whale wrote: post #127
jnky wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't Ireland be your best bet? It's close, English-speaking, culturally similar and some UK citizens are eligible for Irish citizens to boot.

> culturally similar YMMV

For all that we love moaning about each other, Ireland and the UK are probably culturally closer to each other than to any third country.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#157

Post by rsynnott »

galvin wrote: post #154
seibelj wrote: post #23

This could be very bad or it could be very good. The chains of EU centralized bureaucracy are off, now the UK can chart their own destiny (hopefully for the better).

Could you describe those chains? Specifically, which EU regulations have been holding the UK back?

The (wholly imaginary) one mandating red passports, I assume. The whole ‘sovereignty’ argument was always highly symbolic, and not very interested in specifics.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#158

Post by spzb »

tpmx wrote: post #151
spzb wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is less than we had before. Also we now have non tariff barriers including a load more red tape bureaucracy even when sending things from one part of the U.K. to another thanks to the Irish Sea border

You also have less obligations. Whilst still having access to the EU internal market.

And fewer benefits. No longer can I travel, work and study freely anywhere in the EU.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#160

Post by stoneman24 »

Fifer82 wrote: post #60

As a Scotsman, this is a sad day. My only hope is that we leave the Union and that Ireland can work out it's differences and pursue reunification. There is nothing else left for it. A tragic time to be British and nothing to celebrate here.

As a fellow Scot, i will vote SNP in next years Scottish election. That election could be a landslide for them, Leading to another independence vote. Even before the effects of Brexit are felt, there is a slight lead for the yes camp. Perhaps we need to be a poor small country in Europe with a voice rather than ignored in Westminster. A sad day.
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