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USDS Digital Services Playbook
51–60 of 103 posts
Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook
#52I think the biggest problem any US government agency has (federal or state) in producing services that leverage modern technology is that they cannot afford to pay people market rates. We have a mentality in the US that government cannot do anything right, but it seems of late (last 40 years or so) that we are kneecapping government's ability to execute and then complaining about it when it can't and making pronounce…
Yes, and the "total compensation" is no longer good either. "The pay sucks but you get great benefits" meme is no longer true of most state/federal government jobs, those benefits have been drastically shaved down over the last 30 years.
The other major recruiting problem is marijuana prohibition. Government has a lot of problems retaining high-skill IT people because a huge number of computer-touchers smoke. iirc FBI has commented on their inability to hire good technical staff because they can't find anyone who doesn't smoke.
And it's not just a question of willingness to smoke or not going forward, for most public-trust positions you're going to have to abstain for at least a year before even applying.
What are you willing to give up for a job offer that you might not even get? For computer-touchers with lots of other options, that answer is "not much". And federal jobs are basically low-paying, highly-competitive, and high-bureaucracy, when you could be making bank and having a reasonably satisfying work experience in the private sector.
And thus you filter out a huge number of the exact people you're trying to hire - young techies who are familiar with modern IT and development practices.
Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook
#53I think the biggest problem any US government agency has (federal or state) in producing services that leverage modern technology is that they cannot afford to pay people market rates. We have a mentality in the US that government cannot do anything right, but it seems of late (last 40 years or so) that we are kneecapping government's ability to execute and then complaining about it when it can't and making pronounce…
>they cannot afford to pay people market rates This is not true! On average, the federal government is paying quite a bit of money for tech people. I'd seriously estimate they're paying almost FAANG rates in a lot of cases all told. The problem is that a lot of it gets siphoned off in the contracting process. The contracting process needs to be fixed. There's a ton of huge established players doing really bad work. I…
Salaries are publicly posted for many USDS jobs. They aren’t particularly competitive as far as I’ve seen. But - only 20-30% low. It might be worth it for the good one could do.
Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
>they cannot afford to pay people market rates This is not true! On average, the federal government is paying quite a bit of money for tech people. I'd seriously estimate they're paying almost FAANG rates in a lot of cases all told. The problem is that a lot of it gets siphoned off in the contracting process. The contracting process needs to be fixed. There's a ton of huge established players doing really bad work. I…
I'm aware of the problems with the contracting process. My experience with salary is at the state level where things are much more stark, but I also don't think that federal salaries are comparable with FAANG, particularly Google. Most at 18F are at GS-15, right?
Fair point about state/local. My statement about FAANG was based on some napkin math I did with regard to published rates for certain labor categories by some big contracting companies on some vehicles they were a part of.
But even doing a quick comparison, levels.fyi estimates about $160 - 180k cash compensation for new hires for FAANG. GS-15 Step 3 in DC is 150k. Plus excellent government benefits. It's spitting distance at least.
Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
At market comp with market frustrations? Most reasonable people might wanna work for their government for a 20% discount in either, but my fear is that it’s much much more and in both.
It's both more difficult than any private company job I've had and it paid less, but knowing the impact my work had on veterans was well worth all of it. I'm extremely proud of the work that my teammates and I did there. So many people complain about the government, so few are willing to fight to fix it.
No civil service job can make us replace political appointees with well compensated civil servants like Singapore and the UK have.
Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook
#56I think the biggest problem any US government agency has (federal or state) in producing services that leverage modern technology is that they cannot afford to pay people market rates. We have a mentality in the US that government cannot do anything right, but it seems of late (last 40 years or so) that we are kneecapping government's ability to execute and then complaining about it when it can't and making pronounce…
>>We have a mentality in the US that government cannot do anything right
Well many many of us have the mentality that the US Government and various local governments SHOULD NOT be doing some of the things they are attempting to do, even if they could
See we believe in LIMITED government, VERY LIMITED government as such we do not believe in giving the government more resources to take over things it has no ethical authority to be meddling with in the first place
Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm aware of the problems with the contracting process. My experience with salary is at the state level where things are much more stark, but I also don't think that federal salaries are comparable with FAANG, particularly Google. Most at 18F are at GS-15, right?
Fair point about state/local. My statement about FAANG was based on some napkin math I did with regard to published rates for certain labor categories by some big contracting companies on some vehicles they were a part of. But even doing a quick comparison, levels.fyi estimates about $160 - 180k cash compensation for new hires for FAANG. GS-15 Step 3 in DC is 150k. Plus excellent government benefits. It's spitting di…
Point taken, but I think that's probably a best case scenario for government IT in general. I am lucky enough to work for a state-level 18F-alike that has the latitude to pay people market rates, but looking at what my coworkers outside of my direct org get paid I often feel incredibly guilty.
Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook
#58I have a lot of heartburn reading something like this. I spent a decade in government consulting trying to implement anything resembling "data science" or "DevOps" and got repeatedly shut down by higher ups or by random bureaucrats that saw any modern practices, including any technology, as a threat. Excel macros working one day, then prohibited the next by new IT policies. Directors demanding that service line bosse…
I wish I was making any of this up. The federal government has massive, massive employee culture issues. This list is... a nice dream.
Much of what you describe is not unique to the U.S. government. I've run into many very similar scenarios in the jobs I've had over the years, from mid-sized travel company to billion-dollar healthcare companies.
Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook
#59I think the biggest problem any US government agency has (federal or state) in producing services that leverage modern technology is that they cannot afford to pay people market rates. We have a mentality in the US that government cannot do anything right, but it seems of late (last 40 years or so) that we are kneecapping government's ability to execute and then complaining about it when it can't and making pronounce…
Yes, and the "total compensation" is no longer good either. "The pay sucks but you get great benefits" meme is no longer true of most state/federal government jobs, those benefits have been drastically shaved down over the last 30 years. The other major recruiting problem is marijuana prohibition. Government has a lot of problems retaining high-skill IT people because a huge number of computer-touchers smoke. iirc FB…
In particular you can't get any kind of security clearance if you have any history of cannabis usage, as far as I know. I wanted to enlist in the military a few years ago but unfortunately my history with weed means I'm more or less excluded, I think.
Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook
#60I think the biggest problem any US government agency has (federal or state) in producing services that leverage modern technology is that they cannot afford to pay people market rates. We have a mentality in the US that government cannot do anything right, but it seems of late (last 40 years or so) that we are kneecapping government's ability to execute and then complaining about it when it can't and making pronounce…
While mostly true, let’s put this into perspective: A GS-15 in a metro area like New York, DC, and San Francisco, with experience, can get over $170. Throw in performance bonus and matching contributions, and total compensation is $180k+. That does not compare with the high end of the private sector, but that’s reasonable for a lot of people, even at tech companies.
You can estimate here: https://www.federalpay.org/gs/calculator
Also, the sense of duty and serving the public is real. And this is not expressed in a tongue and cheek way... it’s an earnest desire to do meaningful work.
Many people who join USDS, 18F, and PIF from the tech industry are there because they genuinely want to do good work.