Live data from Hacker News

Bitcoin is a disaster

metzdowd.com

541–550 of 992 posts

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#541

> The pseudonymity of coins being owned by the bearer of some > cryptographic key is a failure; People have been eavesdropping and > aggressively analyzing the block chain from day 1. And the block chain > will always be there, it will always be public, and it will always be > subject to further analysis. And we are learning that analysis of that > record is sufficient to destroy any pretense of anonymity or > pseudo…

Whether privacy is a joke or not on Bitcoin isn't the point. Consider most systems in place 10 years ago all were discovered to have holes in them and have been subsequently patched. The belief that today's software, or tomorrow's software, will also have a non-joke level privacy option that is functional long term is, in my opinion, unobtainable.

Bitcoin still manages to be useful in proving identity, however.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#542

I agree with most of the points raised by the author but as a Venezuelan Bitcoin is a godsend. If you live abroad and want to send remittances to your friends and family it can be pretty easy in a normal country , with wire transfers,western union and so on. If your family lives in Venezuela your options are extremely more limited. These are some of the options Venezuelans have had to use: 1. Ask the money to be sent…

Venezuela? come on , You mean only failed states use it. all these sites could be banned any day.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#543

Completely agreeable, albeit it misses a point: Governments can't print more of it. That's it really, everything else is noise. I can sympathize with btc (I wish we still had a gold standard, or a standard based on the price of common goods) but I don't see much the other benefits. On top of this, governments could ban btc.

> Governments can't print more of it. I never really understood that line of reasoning. Why would one person want to reduce the ability to apply economic policy in their country? Certainly, you could use Gold instead of Bitcoin as a similar investment tool, right?

"Why would one person want to reduce the ability to apply economic policy in their country?"

What do you think happens to your currency when they print more of it?

One problem with gold though is that we know where plenty of gold is, its just too expensive to mine. Once the price of gold rises, more gold becomes profitable to mine, supply increases, and the price goes back down.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Early adopters weren't enthusiastic about bitcoin because they hoped it would end fractional reserve banking Just to amplify your point: There is a weird idea that that monetary multiplication (like fractional-reserve banking) is not possible with bitcoin. However, anytime someone lends bitcoin or shorts it on an exchange, they increase the bitcoin in circulation past the base count of 21 million btc (or however ma…

There is a subtle distinction though. When a bank lends out US dollars, they are effectively creating new money that is treated as “real” money. They don’t technically lend out the deposits. In contrast, crypto lenders can’t create new bitcoin. They need deposits to lend out. The depositer in turn is aware they don’t hold real bitcoin, just a deposit credit at the lender. This is the origin of the crypto mantra “Not…

> When a bank lends out US dollars, they are effectively creating new money that is treated as “real” money. They don’t technically lend out the deposits.

This is exactly wrong. In fact, it is the origin of the term "fractional reserve": They are reserving a fraction of the deposits and lending out the rest.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#545
post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hasn’t proven true in countries with functioning govts: they very much have applied tax and securities law to bitcoin.

The rideshare industry had a clear impact on local laws in every first world country for one example.

Right, because it was hard to control and ridesharing was clearly better. My point was the experience in functioning countries has not shown this to be true of bitcoin.

It has been easy enough for govts to enforce tax and security laws where they’ve tried. What laws have been changed for bitcoin?

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason BTC works in this scenario is that the authorities are not chasing it down. If they decide to, it will be just as unviable as the other options and authorities have many methods at their disposal to make bitcoin transfers difficult. BTC is cool, but no amount of tech can solve what is essentially a policy issue: overseas remittances.

Why is it obvious that no amount of tech can solve it? Tech can also influence policy. If something is nearly impossible to stop, it likely won't be stopped. The policy will be changed instead.

> nearly impossible to stop

What's nearly impossible to stop? Can't the government simply shut down the internet to stop Bitcoin? Or insert itself as the man in the middle of all network traffic.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#547

I agree with most of the points raised by the author but as a Venezuelan Bitcoin is a godsend. If you live abroad and want to send remittances to your friends and family it can be pretty easy in a normal country , with wire transfers,western union and so on. If your family lives in Venezuela your options are extremely more limited. These are some of the options Venezuelans have had to use: 1. Ask the money to be sent…

Another fellow Venezuelan here, this guy points are actually wrong and he's just using the momentum to prove some point related to bitcoin that is not true

Before hand, I would like people to know that the current VES:USD rates are the following:

- Official rate: 1.107.198,58 per each USD [1]

- Unofficial rate: 1.027.812,89 per each USD [2]

So now, The way that remittances work in Venezuela is pretty simple, let’s say a person A, wants to send 100$ to his grandma in Venezuela, and Person B has Venezuelan Bolivars.

Person A gets in contact with person B (or viceversa), they agree on a rate based on the 2 rates i said before, person A sends the 100$ usd to person B and person B sends the Venezuelan Bolivars equivalent to person A grandmother. There is always a factor trust on said trade/ remittance where someone has to send the money 1st.

Now, this exchange for the USD side is USUALLY made using Zelle (in the case of USD remittances) but its also done a lot in actual cash USD, it can also be done in any other method such as Paypal, AirTM, Cashapp, Venmo, etc.. it could even be in hello kitty coins if person A and B agrees. It doesnt really matter.. As for the venezuelan bolivars parts, its always done in venezuelan banks.

What the poster here says in point (1) its wrong, you can use W.U, MoneyGram to send money to Venezuela, it uses the official exchange rate, thus, you don't have to go to colombia to send money to venezuela, remitances using those services are working online (they deposit to your bank), there is also fully operational exchanges like zoom casa de cambio, that will take remitances from different companies worldwide. [3]

So this is my point. As I say, venezuelans do not need bitcoin, they could trade even hello kitty online coins or whatever any other method that allows them to send some value worth. Directly, they just use Zelle or cash, some others use paypal or whatever they want.

So, bitcoin doesn't really benefits Venezuelans, the only thing that benefits venezuelans is the localbitcoins escrow service, but this is not because its cripto or because its bitcoin, it's just because noone else offers an escrow service to sucessfully exchange currency, that's pretty much it. Venezuelans just lack some place to properly exchange money it doesnt need bitcoin

In fact, if you go ahead and check localbitcoin prices for exchange between VES:USD, the rate is always worse, you can check this site that tracks the rate on real time [https://dolardeverdad.com/]

Adding to this, there is another layer to this, it's the fact that it's really hard for Venezuelans to convert bitcoin into USD, not only because we are not welcome on sites like coinbase.com

Now, you wonder right now, how come there is a lot of bitcoin being bought in venezuela's localbitcoin market, now I will answer you, it's plain and simple money laundering, that's it, there is drug dealers, corrupt goverment officials and a bunch of shady people who has TONS of venezuelans bolivars and they want to get them turned into something else. Using my example before, the person B would be the corrupt/drug dealer and the person A would be you trying to send money to your grandma

So no, don't come with the "bitcoin is saving venezuela" speech, it', Bitcoin its a workaround for corruption and dirty venezuelan money to find its way into USD.

[1] http://www.bcv.org.ve/

[2] https://www.instagram.com/p/CJbfgj3FLft/

[3] https://www.zoomcasadecambio.com/

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Armchair economists have been predicting inflation since 2008.

And they were right; it has been with us all the time. Look at health care and food.

If that were really true the trivial fix would be to train more medical personnel and invest into more food production. In reality it's just a temporary corona related increase.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#549
post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason BTC works in this scenario is that the authorities are not chasing it down. If they decide to, it will be just as unviable as the other options and authorities have many methods at their disposal to make bitcoin transfers difficult. BTC is cool, but no amount of tech can solve what is essentially a policy issue: overseas remittances.

You can make the same argument about AirBNB or Uber. The bottom line is that when a technology becomes available that makes life much easier for its users, it's really hard for the government to then crack down on it. There's not much reason for any government to want to crack down on BTC simply for the sake of cracking down on it. People talk about governments cracking down on BTC because it will undermine the local…

>>People talk about governments cracking down on BTC because it will undermine the local currency or banking system but I think that's mostly paranoia

Incorrect, the government has no concerns over undermining the local currency. The primary purpose of banking regulations is population control, it has nothing to do with currency perservation

Know your Customer laws, book keeping regulations, etc are all about control and intelligence. If they can get this intel and allow BTC to operate as is they will leave it alone, if however they can not get the intel they need on how money is moving well you can bet your life they will crack down hard

Governments, all governments even yours, are about Power, Control, and Authority not what people seem to naively think that the government is there to "help" or "protect" or any other just altruistic goals.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we have "cash you can email" that doesn't consume as much electricity as several nation states combined?

How much electricity do you think traditional money printing and transfers consume?

When confronted with relatively concrete studies on Bitcoin's wasteful energy use, are you going to point to the fact that physical money printer energy use has not been studied to muddy the waters? The reason it hasn't been studied is that it doesn't use a huge amount of electricity.

Anyway, as another way of answering your question, physical money printing and transfers require no electricity at all, predating the invention of electric power by thousands of years.

Post reply on HN