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Bitcoin is a disaster

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Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#511

Post by 1-6 »

lumost wrote: post #477
1-6 wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren’t there any mention of highly popular alt-coins like Litecoin? It’s less volatile for real use as a fiat alternative and transaction speeds are a lot faster because of the low service fee to speed things up. I kinda regretted keeping funds in Litecoin but it was one of the first to fix Bitcoin’s shortcomings.

alt-coins don't have the market depth of Bitcoin. Moving money in LTC will move the market, BTC is approaching institutional market depth.

I still question the early bag-holders of Bitcoin. Where are they and what do they do now? I think Litecoin came at a time when more people had an awareness of cryptocurrency, it's more democratized during the initial phases because of Scrypt and GPU's being the dominant mining tool at the time. ASICs shifted that balance again but I still have my doubts about who owns the majority of Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#512

Post by bconnorwhite »

toyg wrote: post #456
bconnorwhite wrote: post #416

Most of the criticisms in this thread seem to be missing that Bitcoin is only layer 1. Bitcoin isn't Visa or cash - its gold. Rather than shipping gold across the Atlantic, large institutions will settle in a few minutes in Bitcoin. L2/L3/L4 solutions (built into Apple Pay, etc.) will allow for instant payments for coffee, allow for privacy similar to physical cash, etc. Before this is possible, the price has to stab…

Except Bitcoin has no way to “stabilize”. Without central banks’ intervention and governance, even regular currencies would fluctuate like crazy. Unless the bitcoin world can come up with a Federal Reserve / ECB equivalent, it will continue to be a wild ride, which will effectively impede further uses. It will always be a speculation vehicle rather than a store of value.

I think the difference is that currencies fluctuate against each other, whereas if everything is priced in Bitcoin, its whatever you're pairing it against that's fluctuating. Goods (ex: loaf of bread for 200 satoshis for example) would stay stable

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#513

Post by shawnz »

madeofpalk wrote: post #496
megameter wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see BTC as an immensely successful first try at making this kind of thing - and like any emerging tech it's slow, inefficient, sharp edges, mostly used by experts. It's a tech channeled towards an Ayn Randian utopian fantasy, and has run right into the limits of that fantasy as a working philosophy. And yet, it still has practically useful properties. The coins that win as a currency will have to loosen their grasp…

> and like any emerging tech The problem that everyone else sees is that Bitcoin has been "emerging tech" with all its rough edges for so many years.

Is that wrong? What other new asset class was developed this rapidly?

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#514

Post by lottin »

darawk wrote: post #339
Barrin92 wrote: post #3

>The scarcity of block chain space has led people to re-invent every last feature of the banks they thought they were going to be escaping. This is a pretty funny point because every time I go on twitter and see people talk about crypto, what they're essentially having is a discussion about public policy, and often they seem to try to reinvent institutions that already exist without even knowing it. From market-maker…

This isn't a very good criticism. Lots of new things recapitulate the structures they are replacing in many ways, while improving on them in just one or a few areas. The fact that ground is being retread is not itself a criticism or a sign of a lack of innovation. Yes, Bitcoin requires many of the same structures as traditional finance. That does not make them equivalent. Traditional finance does not allow you sovere…

> Traditional finance does not allow you sovereignty over your money.

What do you mean sovereignty? Do you mean property? Traditional finance is not only compatible with the ownership of money, it relies entirely on it!

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#515

Post by imtringued »

vulturalcptlst wrote: post #254
loeg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTC prices have approximately zero relation to inflation in the real economy (for whatever definition of that you want to use). Rising BTC prices are driven by pyramid scams, fraud, and speculation. There is no useful signal here related to anything else.

Ponzi schemes give an INCOME RETURN Bitcoin gives a PRICE APPRECIATION RETURN One could call this then a “greater fool” play except it has algorithmic reduction in supply which repairs “greater fool” aspect.

If the limited supply was the only thing bitcoin had going for it then it would merely perform exactly like gold but it is over performing which means there is an additional irrational component driving bubbles and busts.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#516

Post by xapata »

DeafSquid wrote: post #493
xapata wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No VAT on bitcoin transactions Sounds like a defect in the technology to me. A good currency should be able to support the full range of social policies (like VAT). One of the problems of the Euro is not being able to inflate different countries within the Eurozone at different rates. If Bitcoin were ever to become popular for regular transactions within many countries, it'd be a fiscal policy disaster. Pretty soon…

Your post disgusts me

> Your post disgusts me

I'm happy to hear reasons to change my mind. What's disgusting?

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#517

Post by doingmyting »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #215
reaperducer wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no proof of residency once my driver's license expired. Every state I've lived in (13 so far) has an ID card that looks and acts exactly like a driver's license, with the only legal difference being that it is not valid for driving. Unless you're not in America, in which case someone else can chime in.

If you don't live in the US, then it becomes difficult to prove state residency as they want things like pay stubs, cellphone bills, and rent payments. Or you need to find someone who can prove residency and then claim (lie) that you reside (domicile) with them. I don't have any of that. But maybe you can appreciate that I don't want to have to jump through those hoops just to be able to send someone $100 digitally.

Please humor me as to where this fictional place is. If you're born in a place you will have a birth certificate and can get documents to prove you are supposed to be there. I've never been to a country where this wasn't true. If you immigrate to a place you'd equally have documents to prove you should be there and can acquire things like a driver license or id cards to take with you. Barring complete war zones or jumping the border wall, I don't know of a place where this wasn't the case.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#518

Post by clemens2000 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #3

>The scarcity of block chain space has led people to re-invent every last feature of the banks they thought they were going to be escaping. This is a pretty funny point because every time I go on twitter and see people talk about crypto, what they're essentially having is a discussion about public policy, and often they seem to try to reinvent institutions that already exist without even knowing it. From market-maker…

The problem is not with Bitcoin. The problem is the 1mb block size cap. The block size cap restricts the number of transactions that can be processed in a block. It's an artificial restriction of supply. When demand increases the price (tx fee) goes (way) up.

There is some magical thinking within the Bitcoin community that only a fixed block size will prevent centralization. I have never heard a solid argument to back that up. Everything in technology is growing exponentially (cpu power, network throughput, disc space). So in relative terms the block size is decreasing exponentially. Technically Bitcoin mining should get exponentially more decentralized. This is not happening.

If we let the block size grow at the same rate as the surrounding tech, or at least at some rate, the supply problem would go away. The transaction fee would go down and we would not need to use flaky and centralizing tech like the lightning network that mimics the financial system that we wanted to escape.

For a long time this was a theory. However several forks of Bitcoin have tried it in practice (eg BCH, LTC, BSV). Over several years these experiments have shown that if you stop restricting the block size you get a system that is dependable, cheap to use, and scalable.

My wish for 2021 is for people in Bitcoin to reconsider if they have made a mistake in restricting the blockchain. I hope they will have the courage to change their minds in light of data.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#519

Post by galvin »

_red wrote: post #397
wpietri wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those analogies don't work for me. I already have "digital cash". The great bulk of the money I spend never takes physical form. And I use Linux because it's demonstrably superior for the tasks most important to me. Bitcoin, though, mainly seems to solve problems for speculators and people engaging in light financial crime. Is there a niche I'm missing?

>Bitcoin, though, mainly seems to solve problems for speculators and people engaging in light financial crime. Is there a niche I'm missing? Do you have a source for that?

The comment you replied to is the source. What other type of source would you like for what something "seems" like to an individual?

It seems to me that asking for sources is a common technique for discrediting opinions on HN. It looks like a legitimate question but obviously if they had a source it would be a fact rather than an opinion.

If you are actually interested in how that opinion is formed ask a relevant question or point out what they are missing.

Personally I find that opinion entirely reasonable given that there are no problems I have that Bitcoin would solve better than the alternatives unless I was inclined to buy something online anonymously or to speculate on Bitcoin itself.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#520

Post by DeafSquid »

rossjudson wrote: post #365
loeg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTC prices have approximately zero relation to inflation in the real economy (for whatever definition of that you want to use). Rising BTC prices are driven by pyramid scams, fraud, and speculation. There is no useful signal here related to anything else.

I guess "I want to invest in crime, but I don't want to have to do crime to invest in it" falls under speculation.

If I wanted to invest in crime I'd buy bank stocks and US bonds.
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