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Why Jira Sucks

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431–440 of 530 posts

Re: Why Jira Sucks

#431
post #119

There's a hundred small issues with Jira, but there's one huge one: It's slow. Really, really slow. Atlassian seems to make a lot of money, so I guess they're optimising for something that matters to someone , but from my point of view I have a simple process for evaluating tools: 1) Can I use it at all ? 2) How many of the features I want does it have? I'm pretty sure Jira would score great on the second question, b…

A customer I am currently working with has a JIRA instance which literally, looking at the firefox network inspector right now, takes 13.04 seconds before it's done loading. It takes at least 10 seconds before the page will even let me scroll. I can't even comprehend how they have managed to get this poor of performance.

Does it keep reloading batch.js? Is it because the URL is changing or is it just not getting cached at the browser? Answering these questions is a first step to speed up Jira.

See also my comment from 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18511497

Re: Why Jira Sucks

#432

Unpopular opinion: it doesn’t suck. Let me walk that back a bit - I have no experience of the cloudy version which unanimously seems to be derided as slow. Atlassian - you might wanna fix that. Like yesterday. But server (& datacentre) editions - best in class for my money. In terms of features, the Rally / Agile Central (did that just re-brand again?) rollup roadmap view is the only missing feature i crave. Atlassia…

The Structure add-on does a great job of rolling up. The Portfolio product was way too difficult to use--they rebuilt it so maybe things might be different now.

I agree there are/were the best in class for the money--but with Atlassian throwing all their resources into cloud now, raising the prices on on-premise, I worry for its future. I suspect we're only going to get timid features--nothing bold that might improve the UX/UI, or anything that will break the migration path to Cloud, which is their end-goal.

If I was starting out again, I'd probably examine YouTrack where there's at least some assurance they are investing in its future.

Re: Why Jira Sucks

#433
post #166
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% this. JIRA is bad because it encourages managers to use it to do stupid things, not because it’s inherently bad software.

We can say laptops are bad because they let people create bad software too. Jira is far from perfect but there isn’t much that solves what it can in an integrated manner. Sometimes complex problems need complex tools to manage them. Maybe some problems are too simple and basic but imagined to have complexity and end up in an over engineered Jira setup?

Permits and encourages are quite different things though.

Re: Why Jira Sucks

#434
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at an org where you couldn’t do anything without and being assigned a Jira ticket. Want to refactor some code so the feature your working on is maintainable, nope you need an assigned Jira ticket. The fact that work units are called tickets and Jira was built originally for desktop support is the foundation of the problem. Don’t think, just code attitude. Anything is better than Jira including post it notes…

Why is this a problem? Was it difficult to create a Jira ticket? When last i used Jira, it took a few seconds to create one. Less time than it takes to write a commit message.

Not the person you responded to, but I'll take a swing.

In many org, you don't just write a JIRA ticket. You write a ticket. It ends up in the backlog. You are in the middle of a sprint. you are not allowed to change the sprint. 2 weeks (or whatever) later you have a meeting, where you have to argue for your ticket being next. That probably doesn't result in success, but pretend it does. Then it gets assigned to somebody that essentially knows nothing about it, because developers are interchangable, don't you know? Meanwhile you are stalled because that refactor made sense to do before the ticket you are working on. So you work on that one, don't move it to complete, and get dinged. Or you do it anyway, knowing you will have to do the work a second time once the refactor is done, but hey, you'll get so move multiple tickets to 'ready for test' next sprint or so, so yay, you measure well, can't wait for bonus time!

Yes, I just described a horrible process, but pretty much how it goes in most places. The very first thing people forget, and fight strenuously against, is the agile principle "people, not process"

To offer the counterpoint, if I am refactoring sw that runs in a flight computer or something, even more process is needed, because you need to test extensively before releasing code that can kill someone. That check in can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars if you touched something that is now going to have to go through lengthy QA.

It just depends on where you work, and the cost of bugs vs rapid response to problems/requests. In my experience orgs try to build a workflow that would suit the space shuttle when the product is, well, less important and serious.

Re: Why Jira Sucks

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you prefer to gather the context for something that may have been hashed out months or years ago by different people?

The idea that a task can and should be "hashed out months or years ago by different people" is part of the JIRA mentality. And it is absurd.

You might actually be the assembly line robot if your work is so simple that you can do it without any sort of planning, design or collaboration.

Re: Why Jira Sucks

#437
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% disagree. Fixing a bug or delivering a feature where you haven't documented the process, (how the criteria were decided, when it was tested and deployed) is as good a running a web site nobody visits. JIRA hate comes from the bottom up. Developers don't like having to have their work parceled out so specifically. But it's not for them. It's for managers and stakeholders who have to report progress and who are…

> Developers don't like having to have their work parceled out so specifically. But it's not for them. It's for managers and stakeholders who have to report progress and who are responsible for budgets. As someone who dislikes JIRA but likes process, I agree with this. The way that JIRA structures projects has specific tradeoffs that disadvantage developers and advantage middle managers because it's entirely based ar…

This is so nicely formulated, thank you so much! I'm just thinking, isn't what you describe the general problem of agile methods/processes, and not Jira's, as it's just one of tools built to assist in agile implementation?

Re: Why Jira Sucks

#438
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A git commit is a process document. Developers don’t like JIRA. I’ve already left traces of my process when I pushed the code. Developers love GitHub. A robot will associate my git commit with the ticket and mark the ticket accordingly. As a developer I don’t like repeating my self. A robot should be able to catalog my process documents. If middle management wants to use JIRA it needs to be set up so that a developer…

A git commit is a "how," not a "what" or a "why." That's where JIRA comes in (if used properly). I don't love JIRA, but (IMHO) when it's used properly, it's a great tool.

[deleted]

Re: Why Jira Sucks

#439
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% disagree. Fixing a bug or delivering a feature where you haven't documented the process, (how the criteria were decided, when it was tested and deployed) is as good a running a web site nobody visits. JIRA hate comes from the bottom up. Developers don't like having to have their work parceled out so specifically. But it's not for them. It's for managers and stakeholders who have to report progress and who are…

> If devs aren't working on priority items Define how something comes to be a "priority item", who decides, and what happens when JIRA does not reflect the actual priority as observed by devs? If the answer is "more JIRA" then you're already failing.

Developers absolutely should not be deciding what is 'priority'. It's very unlikely they have access to the metrics, wider business strategy, internal and external stakeholders, necessary to determine this. That is the job of the Product Manager.

Re: Why Jira Sucks

#440
post #119

There's a hundred small issues with Jira, but there's one huge one: It's slow. Really, really slow. Atlassian seems to make a lot of money, so I guess they're optimising for something that matters to someone , but from my point of view I have a simple process for evaluating tools: 1) Can I use it at all ? 2) How many of the features I want does it have? I'm pretty sure Jira would score great on the second question, b…

As a recovering Jira architect, you can drastically speed up the application by minimizing the use of permissions wherever possible. When you go to a page for a ticket, the app has to make multiple backend calls (which likely involve even more backend calls to a directory) to determine what groups you're in and so what you're allowed to do with that ticket and what UI elements to hide or show as a result. By turning…

It is a fundamentally poor design for permission checks to require additional network round-trips. A user's group memberships need only be evaluated once when they log on, with a refresh every few minutes at most.

Access control lists can be easily cached, and then most access checks can be performed entirely in-memory.

Instead of evaluating the full ACL every time, an additional trick is to take the cryptographic hash of the ACL and use that as a cache key. This both deduplicates the ACLs (which tend to be repetitive), and also allows (ACL,UserId) tuples to be efficiently cached.

This way, a page with even a hundred controls becomes effectively a hundred hashtable lookups the second time it is viewed, and even the first time it is opened the overhead is no more than a millisecond.

If turning off security makes a noticeable difference like you said, Atlassian has done none of these basic things. It indicates to me an incredible level of negligence.

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