Bitcoin is a disaster • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#51

Post by baby » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #14

I was real excited the first time that Bitcoin was explained to me. I saw it as the first real alternative to paper money. But what I soon learned is that most of the people associated with Bitcoin saw it as digital gold and were only interested in seeing the value rise and cashing out. I've seen a few positive developments every once in a while that fail to get much adoption. So I keep waiting and waiting. It increa…

Bitcoin is pretty much the modern gold, if you’re looking for something revolutionary as in “can be used for day to day transactions” you’ll have to check more modern cryptocurrencies that aim to be stable, regulated, and fast.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#52

Post by jokethrowaway » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:56 PM UTC

lawtalkinghuman wrote: post #28

theodric wrote: post #17

[flagged]

The trollish Bitcoiner answer to every criticism: "you just jelly of my internet money".

I definitely am!

I can't believe btc got this far.

I never bought anything because it sounds ridiculous and the kind of thing any western government would ban immediately - turns out I was wrong.

I know people who are completely clueless about the economy who retired just by betting on BTC.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#53

Post by loeg » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:56 PM UTC

keithwhor wrote: post #24

Related: the current rise of Bitcoin prices has been peculiar to me, and seems to be a bit of a canary in an inflationary coal mine. We've injected trillions of dollars of fiat into the economy this year. It feels like the sky-high valuations of technology companies and Bitcoin are "shock absorbers" of sorts, or early signals of inflation-yet-to-come. If we assume the market is efficiently pricing these assets (like…

BTC prices have approximately zero relation to inflation in the real economy (for whatever definition of that you want to use). Rising BTC prices are driven by pyramid scams, fraud, and speculation. There is no useful signal here related to anything else.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#54

Post by svara » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:56 PM UTC

There does seem to be a fundamental design issue in bitcoin and proof of work in general: Mining has economies of scale and therefore winner takes all mechanics leading to centralization.

At that point the mechanism that ensures ledger integrity is the calculation that if the miner tampers with the ledger, that would destroy trust in the coin and hurt the miner in that way.

But 1) that's exactly how conventional currencies work too and 2) it's actually an untested hypothesis. Who knows what would happen in a world where the economy runs on bitcoin and there's some "good reason" to deviate from the protocol.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#55

Post by coconut08 » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

etimberg wrote: post #26

sunshinerag wrote: post #8

I have no idea what he is talking about. I use bitcoin to buy things both onchain and via lightning and the experience is so smooth and much much better than the circa 2017 period when fees were high. Don't keep it on exchange. The real thing that is stopping adoption is countries trying to classify it as a commodity and insist to pay capital gains on every microtransaction. Some countries are backwards (US, UK) than…

Why do you believe there should be no capital gains on it?

because you can't use it as a money if you need to pay capital gains on every stick of gum you buy. they should find other ways to collect taxes that doesn't inhibit it.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#56

Post by s5300 » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

corty wrote: post #49

raziel2701 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of things do you buy with it and where? I remember seeing some adoption back when steam started accepting it, but sometime later they stopped because it was too volatile. I thought paying fees for the transaction made bitcoin very unappealing as well. It's not anonymous either, so I just couldn't find a reason to use it as it didn't solve anything that I couldn't do with my credit card. And my credit card o…

> What kind of things do you buy with it and where? Drugs, CP, cryptotrojan ransom, other crime related transactions. Bitcoin value is directly related to relevant criminal activity.

Huh. Didn't know these were all the main exports of Nigeria

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#57

Post by oblio » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #39

Barrin92 wrote: post #3

>The scarcity of block chain space has led people to re-invent every last feature of the banks they thought they were going to be escaping. This is a pretty funny point because every time I go on twitter and see people talk about crypto, what they're essentially having is a discussion about public policy, and often they seem to try to reinvent institutions that already exist without even knowing it. From market-maker…

I don't see the irony. The point is that Bitcoin has introduced an actual "digital cash" currency without institutional/governmental middlemen. That institutions can be built on top of that, and that some people want such institutions, doesn't change the novel utility of finally having a currency that functions like digital cash. It's like saying it's ironic that people use physical USD for anonymous p2p transactions…

What's "digital cash" in this context? What does it offer extra compared to regular cash and online payments?

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#58

Post by foepys » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

sunshinerag wrote: post #8

I have no idea what he is talking about. I use bitcoin to buy things both onchain and via lightning and the experience is so smooth and much much better than the circa 2017 period when fees were high. Don't keep it on exchange. The real thing that is stopping adoption is countries trying to classify it as a commodity and insist to pay capital gains on every microtransaction. Some countries are backwards (US, UK) than…

The Lightning Network doesn't solve the congestion problem for global adoption. To open a lightning channel you need an on-chain transaction. The same is true to close one. Assuming 2,500 transactions per block, you will need ~970 days to just open a lightning channel for each US citizen (assuming 350 million citizens and no other Bitcoin transactions).

Due to his limitation the Lightning Network is unsuited for any large scale use outside of exchanges.

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#59

Post by baby » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #47

This is written from the perspective of a person who believes in blockchain-based currencies but thinks Bitcoin as an implementation of said currency is a failure. He thinks the concept of mining is a fundamental flaw. But he keeps the door open for different implementations. Personally, I think the whole concept of blockchain-based currencies is flawed. But let’s not go there right now. The value of Bitcoin is very…

Why would you put your money in gold rather than bitcoin?

Also why is the concept of blockchain as currency is flawed? What construction would you use instead for a currency that is trusted throughout the world?

Re: Bitcoin is a disaster

#60

Post by whatever1 » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

keithwhor wrote: post #24

Related: the current rise of Bitcoin prices has been peculiar to me, and seems to be a bit of a canary in an inflationary coal mine. We've injected trillions of dollars of fiat into the economy this year. It feels like the sky-high valuations of technology companies and Bitcoin are "shock absorbers" of sorts, or early signals of inflation-yet-to-come. If we assume the market is efficiently pricing these assets (like…

Why coca-cola would 3ple their prices in 2021? The loans are cheap, the wages are stagnant, energy and raw materials are cheap. I really don't see this scenario playing out unless the financial institutions collapse.