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HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

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Re: HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

#351

Post by j45 »

mulmen wrote: post #347
j45 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what the other post might be missing is that the gamers of the 90s/early 2000's are gen y aka millenials and often called or treated as boomers.

Ok now I’m really confused. I’m a millennial but I have never (to my knowledge) been called a “boomer”. Doesn’t that make Halo or CS “boomer shooters”? Maybe I’m older than I think...

I don’t think you are saying just because you haven’t experienced something means it can’t be out of the realm of possibility? And for it to be proven someone has to do the work specifically to convince you? Seems kind of evangelical, which is a foreign concept to me. But I’ll try, respectfully.

Perhaps you you look/act younger than others.

Or maybe others act/look older than you.

Or, maybe there’s people who exist who exaggerate the first difference between themselves and someone else to put distance between them for reasons like ego/insecurity.

Instead of a lens of doubt and putting the burden of others of having to educate you, it’s also possible to meet half way and ask.. what else could this mean that I’m not seeing? Our brains tend to find what we put attention towards.

Either way I hope that helps and no offence intended.

Re: HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

#352

Post by mulmen »

j45 wrote: post #351
mulmen wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok now I’m really confused. I’m a millennial but I have never (to my knowledge) been called a “boomer”. Doesn’t that make Halo or CS “boomer shooters”? Maybe I’m older than I think...

I don’t think you are saying just because you haven’t experienced something means it can’t be out of the realm of possibility? And for it to be proven someone has to do the work specifically to convince you? Seems kind of evangelical, which is a foreign concept to me. But I’ll try, respectfully. Perhaps you you look/act younger than others. Or maybe others act/look older than you. Or, maybe there’s people who exist w…

It was just a new term to me so I was asking for clarification. You’ve been helpful, thanks.

Re: HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

#353

Post by ogre_codes »

pjmlp wrote: post #235
andai wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you mean when you say we?

Probably the GNU/Linux users that now jump of joy when given Electron apps or Wine/Proton based games.

Never really thought about what a blessing Electron is for Linux users. Electron means Linux Desktop users are a build away rather so they get the same resource hogging apps Windows and Mac users do.

Re: HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

#354

Post by j45 »

mulmen wrote: post #302
j45 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet generations seem to be much quicker, with big shifts every 3 to 5 years. Mary Meeker's yearly summary often illustrates aspects of this.

Not sure I follow. Does “boomer” not mean “person born between 1946 and 1964”? Does it just mean ”old” now?

Also, here’s the Mary meeker reference that talks to much quicker changes online than in real life generations.

https://www.bondcap.com/report/itr19/#&gid=1&pid=1

Re: HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

#355

Post by bitwize »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #323
mulmen wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yeah, that reading does make more sense. Guess I have a raw nerve.

I'm less positive of it after rereading the post to be honest. Netscape in 99 was just starting it's plummet, so it's hard to say it was booming but it also wasn't really outdated either. I probably should have thought my post through more, sorry.

> Netscape in 99 was just starting it's plummet

Navigator was already effectively dead in 1998, when Netscape announced plans to open source the code and launch the Mozilla project. Navigator 4.0 was a buggy mess, and it did not support the W3C standards of the day. It was only a matter of time before the Web broke enough to force the installed Navigator base to switch.

Re: HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

#356

Post by dleslie »

Pentamerous wrote: post #322
dleslie wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "Newgrounds as it was at Flash's peak" for HTML5.

I don't think this is true at all. itch.io and Gamejolt are very popular platforms for indie artists. You submit a zip instead of a swf but the end result is the same, your work is online and playable by anyone. Be it games or animations. They might have not had a big cultural impact like Newsgrounds but they're serious platforms and they definitely fit the requirements (host arbitrary html5 content with ease)

> They might have not had a big cultural impact like Newsgrounds

So ... there's nothing like Newgrounds at its peak, then.

The requirement is _far_ beyond simple hosting. The creation process has to be 5 minutes to an animation from zero domain experience, and an hour or two from a game. Flash's tools were _that good_.

Re: HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

#358

Post by dsego »

krapp wrote: post #244
dsego wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if it has local dependencies, like js or css, then you would need to bundle those as well, in an archive perhaps.

You can include js and css in the same html file, between and tags.

Duh, that's if I build the page myself and I know how to code html. Even then it's not trivial in the sense that it will "just work".

Re: HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

#359

Post by boomboomsubban »

bitwize wrote: post #355
boomboomsubban wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm less positive of it after rereading the post to be honest. Netscape in 99 was just starting it's plummet, so it's hard to say it was booming but it also wasn't really outdated either. I probably should have thought my post through more, sorry.

> Netscape in 99 was just starting it's plummet Navigator was already effectively dead in 1998, when Netscape announced plans to open source the code and launch the Mozilla project. Navigator 4.0 was a buggy mess, and it did not support the W3C standards of the day. It was only a matter of time before the Web broke enough to force the installed Navigator base to switch.

It'd still have been either first or second in browser share, there was a reason AOL was still willing to buy it for so much money. Technologically already dead, but just starting the plummet.

Re: HTML5 still doesn't replicate what mattered about Flash

#360

Post by indymike »

azangru wrote: post #316
indymike wrote: post #310

Flash and HTML5 never were the same thing. Flash always seemed to be an easier and more approachable way to do applets than Java. As it aged, it also became a kind of universal functionality plug-in that let people build experiences that you just couldn't do with HTML and JavaScript at the time. The spiritual successor to Flash (and Java applets) is probably more WebAssembly than HTML5 - although many parts of HTML5…

> The spiritual successor to Flash is probably more WebAssembly than HTML5 The author's point is that Flash had GUI authoring tools and was "content-first", whereas js and infinitely more so webassembly are programmer-first. It doesn't bother me a bit (am a programmer), but it does bother him.

I wonder how long it will be until there are content authoring tools that build to WebAssembly? For a long time, Flash was kind of the runtime for stuff you couldn't do in the browser with HTML + JS.
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