Live data from Hacker News

Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon, Other Conspiracy Theories

npr.org

71–80 of 94 posts

Re: Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon, Other Conspiracy Theories

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying only one party engages in this? I could list many conspiracies peddled by the other party but I would be flagged/banned for most. Some less controversial ones might be Trump being elected due to mysterious Russians, and Trump being a secret White Supremacist hiding dog whistles in every other tweet.

Only one party ran and had elected a QAnon senator. That's kind of a QED.

Only one party elected someone who thought putting too many soldiers in Guam would tip the island over.

Re: Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon, Other Conspiracy Theories

#72

Many people are presented with 2 alternatives: Alternative A) You are an ordinary person with an ordinary job and ordinary pasttimes. You fulfill your role in society like everyone else. Alternative B) You have an important mission that will change the course of history, to spread the influence of . If you are bored, tired of living a repetitive life and have no purpose in life, Alternative B) sounds fantastic. Now y…

> Conspiracy theories, religious fanatism, extreme nationalism, flat earth societies, sanitary anticompliance (anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers), climate change denial... they all have a thing in common: they are not rational and the people behind them are afraid of rationality and science. Actually, I'd disagree. If you dig in to a lot of these theories, there is a kernel of rationality behind them. Many adherents can act…

I would not call it a "kernel of rationality", I would call it a "kernel of creativity"... creativity that can be very clever and complex, but ultimately, creative (i.e.: made up).

Re: Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon, Other Conspiracy Theories

#73
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Conspiracy theories, religious fanatism, extreme nationalism, flat earth societies, sanitary anticompliance (anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers), climate change denial... they all have a thing in common: they are not rational and the people behind them are afraid of rationality and science. Actually, I'd disagree. If you dig in to a lot of these theories, there is a kernel of rationality behind them. Many adherents can act…

All cults and religions are based on flawed logic, justifying and reinforcing its viral load. Not saying movements don't have some learning and constructive purposes too, but the core of the ideology itself is always full of flawed logic most effective in confusing people.

Most large religions have something in common: as literacy and population density increases (i.e.: more people independently recording their own perspective on an event), miracles become less spectacular and divine revelation stops. Today we have no more columns of fire, no more prophets... nothing.

Legends are passed from generation to generation, and the ones that were more spectacular and entertaining were more likely to be passed to the next generation. So at some moment in history you had a proliferation of spectacular stories and prophets and miracles and divine revelation. But once writing systems are developed and adopted by the general population this no longer happens. Why? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the most likely reason is because people were making stuff up all along. That's why.

Secondly, the afterlife...

The reason people believe in an afterlife is mostly because the brain is designed to look for a path to survival at all times. e.g.: You think about going to work because you need income to go to the grocery store so you can buy food which you will eventually cook and then eat = survival. work -> income -> money -> food -> survival.

But eventually, the brain learns that all paths ultimately lead to death anyways. The brain, however, has defense mechanisms that prevent it from falling into psychological states that are bad for survival, and those defense mechanisms often involve illogical lines of thought. When this happens, your brain will try to get out of that psychological state by making some shit up, such as "look bro, you will die, but right after that, you will continue living". i.e.: the afterlife, souls, etc.

The afterlife, however, is just the beginning. Once you have an afterlife, now you can make rules that dictate what happens there. e.g.: "If you don't pay 10% of your income to me, your afterlife will suck". And once you standardize those rules now you have organized religion.

Re: Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon, Other Conspiracy Theories

#74
post #15

The Russian collusion conspiracy theory lasted for years, was broadcast on all the MSM news channels, and included many sitting congress members, without any evidence that it was true. Millions of wasted dollars later, and Mueller came up with nothing. The Russian collusion conspiracy theory was the most prevalent conspiracy theory of the last 4 years.

I strongly suggest you read the Mueller report. It's not what you've been led to believe. "Mueller and his team of prosecutors have now indicted 34 individuals and three Russian businesses on charges ranging from computer hacking to conspiracy and financial crimes." "Those indictments have led to seven guilty pleas and five people sentenced to prison." If this doesn't line up with what you've heard, don't believe me,…

If any group of politicians had been investigated to the depth of the Mueller investigation, the same amount of criminal behavior would have been found. They're all criminals, you have to be to compete.

Re: Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon, Other Conspiracy Theories

#75
post #12

Many people are presented with 2 alternatives: Alternative A) You are an ordinary person with an ordinary job and ordinary pasttimes. You fulfill your role in society like everyone else. Alternative B) You have an important mission that will change the course of history, to spread the influence of . If you are bored, tired of living a repetitive life and have no purpose in life, Alternative B) sounds fantastic. Now y…

Scientific knowledge is something we mostly take on trust, not through first principle. It is largely impossible for us to operate any other way, no matter how true our knowledge is.

Scientific publications have citations and the findings in them, whether correct or not, are falsifiable...

Re: Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon, Other Conspiracy Theories

#76
post #66
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean They know very well where they've wanted it to lead. Do you think otherwise?

So dictatorship was the rightist plan all along then?

Perhaps not the plan, per se, but when your entire ideology relies on falsehoods (like trickle-down economics, and the genetic superiority of white men over everyone else), when you take that to its logical conclusion you must employ authoritarian methods to suppress the reality that proves you're full of bullshit.

Re: Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon, Other Conspiracy Theories

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Trump says things that are misleading or blatantly untrue. However I don't think mistrust in the MSM is "ideology" associated with one party. Fox News is the MSM for many people and they've given us many reasons to distrust them. Just off the top of my head: * WaPo and NYT lied about WMDs and Iraq. * NYT lied about NSA spying programs in 2005. Snowden explicitly said he gave his leaks to a British organization b…

You're cherry-picking a few specific examples on the Democratic side, and comparing it to a party that literally ran - and had elected - a QAnon senator [1]. This whataboutism and false equivalency is extremely toxic. Are dems perfect? Lord no. Does the MSM make mistakes? Absolutely. Is one side actively engaged in a war on truth? Yeah, kinda. > However I don't think mistrust in the MSM is "ideology" associated with…

> This whataboutism and false equivalency is extremely toxic.

It's not whataboutism, I never excused Trump nor the Republicans. They should be called out on their bullshit. If anything, responding to a comment solely about things the media has done with Senate election results is whataboutism.

False equivalency... Eh, maybe. The eye-for-an-eye tallying of sins never goes well and I'm not ready to try at the moment. But I will agree that Fox News has its reputation as a cesspool for a reason.

> Are dems perfect? Lord no. Does the MSM make mistakes? Absolutely. Is one side actively engaged in a war on truth? Yeah, kinda.

This helped me realize the problem. You come just short of saying MSM == Democrats, other news == Republicans. Not a single line of my previous post criticized any Dem politicians, only the MSM. The previous post has at least one example of the MSM working against progressive values. They are not the same thing. If you consider them the same thing, I think that's strange, because I don't think they should be. If there's some evidence that they are the same thing, do share, you'll probably be adding CNN's rap sheet of corruption.

Re: Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon, Other Conspiracy Theories

#80
post #76
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So dictatorship was the rightist plan all along then?

Perhaps not the plan, per se, but when your entire ideology relies on falsehoods (like trickle-down economics, and the genetic superiority of white men over everyone else), when you take that to its logical conclusion you must employ authoritarian methods to suppress the reality that proves you're full of bullshit.

Not all of it is bullshit, but my hope is for people to call out the bad motivations and behaviour, in politics and workplace alike. Force them to discuss real issues rather than tribalism.

The identity politics has exactly the same problem, of losing the universal principles and broader perspectives.

Post reply on HN