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Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

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Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#91

Post by alistairSH »

macspoofing wrote: post #74
jcranmer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterpart to your argument is that the police brutality hasn't really made much of an impact to crime in Baltimore, certainly not a positive impact. Indeed, the homicide clearance rates in Baltimore are pretty poor, which means the police aren't putting the criminals in prison, and your support for police brutality isn't real support for the innocent crime victims but only lip service.

>and your support for police brutality Show me where I supported policy brutality? Here's a hint: NOBODY supports police brutality.

“ Victim-rights trump criminal-rights.”

In Baltimore, the police ARE criminals. Again and again, that department has shown itself to be corrupt from top to bottom.

The victims are the citizens of Baltimore who are falsely accused of crimes and imprisoned on trumped up charges.

Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#92

Post by millzlane »

Zigurd wrote: post #72
javajosh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American public is already too biased in favor of LEO, to judge by trial outcomes. Law enforcement should be held to a higher, not lower standard than ordinary people. That will make the job tougher, but if it that makes it too tough for an individual, they don't have to work there.

I experienced this myself at a DUI trial where the sole prosecution witness, a cop, clearly lied about being run off the road by the defendant, and other aspects of the case. Defence counsel demonstrated that the stretch or road where the cop claimed to have been run off the road had no shoulders, had guard rails close to the road, and had trees hemming-in the road. I ended up hanging the jury. My fellow jurors were…

Makes sense why I was dismissed from jury duty in Baltimore. One of the questions I was asked was if I would believe a police officer's testimony to be true just because he was a cop.

Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#93

Post by millzlane »

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #88

I'm as libertarian as they come, but I've also lived in Baltimore and know how incapable the city is of controlling its crime. Baltimore's homicide clearance rate in 2019 was 32%. Not only does that leave its residents living in fear, that also represents an outrageous injustice against victims whose deaths are written off as business as usual. Baltimore residents have a right to set their own destiny, but if they re…

I live near some blue light cameras in Baltimore. Murders happen right beneath them. They don't deter anything.

Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#94

Post by ultrarunner »

millzlane wrote: post #92
Zigurd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced this myself at a DUI trial where the sole prosecution witness, a cop, clearly lied about being run off the road by the defendant, and other aspects of the case. Defence counsel demonstrated that the stretch or road where the cop claimed to have been run off the road had no shoulders, had guard rails close to the road, and had trees hemming-in the road. I ended up hanging the jury. My fellow jurors were…

Makes sense why I was dismissed from jury duty in Baltimore. One of the questions I was asked was if I would believe a police officer's testimony to be true just because he was a cop.

Could you elaborate on the question asked and how you answered? While I wouldn't exactly be surprised, the idea that a lawyer for either side could just blatantly fish for sympathetic jurors seems like a wild miscarriage of due process. It doesn't seem clearly morally distinct from e.g. simply paying jurors to convict.

Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#95

Post by nobody9999 »

google234123 wrote: post #86
cultus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you need to change your news sources, because you have a very warped idea of how violent inner cities are. It's not the 1970's.

According to the wiki page on this, the murder rate is now 3 times high than 1977 (start of data on the table).

>According to the wiki page on this, the murder rate is now 3 times high than 1977 (start of data on the table).

From the link[0] I posted previously"

"Lastly, we turn to another place where crime and violence spiked in 2015: Baltimore. This year, Baltimore’s story continues to be a mixed one. The total number of crimes reported in the city fell by almost 6 percent compared to 2018 (through the last week of November), with violent crime falling by about 2.5 percent. Robbery, burglary, theft, and auto theft decreased modestly, while reported rape fell dramatically — with law enforcement documenting nearly 26 percent fewer offenses."

As I said, crime is down in Baltimore. Continuing to say say "crime is up in Baltimore" doesn't make it true.

[0] https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/take...

Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#96

Post by nobody9999 »

asdfadsfgfdda wrote: post #79
nobody9999 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is also huge support to reduce high crime rates. People will compromise some things to achieve this. Except crime rates are at their lowest points in decades [0]. [0] https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/amer...

Why not support lowering crime rates even more? Comparing the crime rates in Baltimore to other western countries, there's still plenty of room for improvement.

>Why not support lowering crime rates even more? Comparing the crime rates in Baltimore to other western countries, there's still plenty of room for improvement.

Where, exactly, did I say we shouldn't "support lowering crime rates?"

Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#97

Post by iron0013 »

macspoofing wrote: post #74
jcranmer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterpart to your argument is that the police brutality hasn't really made much of an impact to crime in Baltimore, certainly not a positive impact. Indeed, the homicide clearance rates in Baltimore are pretty poor, which means the police aren't putting the criminals in prison, and your support for police brutality isn't real support for the innocent crime victims but only lip service.

>and your support for police brutality Show me where I supported policy brutality? Here's a hint: NOBODY supports police brutality.

If you make it excuses for any and every instance of police brutality—which you’ve demonstrated you’re willing to do—you are effectively supporting police brutality. That is obvious, and for you play naïf when someone points it out is an act of bad faith. Please stop doing that.

Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#98

Post by [deleted] »

macspoofing wrote: post #68
birdyrooster wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it was the only way. You made it a false choice in your mind. Locking people up is a deterrence but it creates many criminals by putting them in depraved conditions for extended periods of time, then depriving them of employability and then as an insult, charging monthly fees for probation or other post-incarceration monitoring. The last thing I want to point out is how often the police victimize people…

>I never said it was the only way. You wrote: "police departments take a lot (in some cases a plurality) of total tax revenue that could be used to help victims in ways beyond deterrence. That is why we talk about defunding police." Where is the evidence that the police budget is what is preventing social programs to be funded? That is a fiction driven from the inane sloganeering around 'defund the police'. You can f…

[deleted]

Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#99

Post by pfranz »

ultrarunner wrote: post #94
millzlane wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes sense why I was dismissed from jury duty in Baltimore. One of the questions I was asked was if I would believe a police officer's testimony to be true just because he was a cop.

Could you elaborate on the question asked and how you answered? While I wouldn't exactly be surprised, the idea that a lawyer for either side could just blatantly fish for sympathetic jurors seems like a wild miscarriage of due process. It doesn't seem clearly morally distinct from e.g. simply paying jurors to convict.

I'm pretty sure this is an incredibly common subject during voir dire. While this is probably more on the benign side of questioning, I remember being asked if anyone had negative interactions with law enforcement. I'm less confident, but I'm pretty sure followup questions were more specific to trusting law enforcement's testimony.

Re: Baltimore police lied about almost every aspect of its spy plane program

#100

Post by plorkyeran »

ultrarunner wrote: post #94
millzlane wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes sense why I was dismissed from jury duty in Baltimore. One of the questions I was asked was if I would believe a police officer's testimony to be true just because he was a cop.

Could you elaborate on the question asked and how you answered? While I wouldn't exactly be surprised, the idea that a lawyer for either side could just blatantly fish for sympathetic jurors seems like a wild miscarriage of due process. It doesn't seem clearly morally distinct from e.g. simply paying jurors to convict.

I've been through multiple jury selections where they've explicitly asked if I'd be willing to convict based solely on the word of a police officer, with both lawyers seemingly expecting the answer to be yes.
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