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Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

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Re: Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

#121

Post by thelittleone »

SpaceRaccoon wrote: post #82
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that people should not be able to hunt for wild foods? Or that they shouldn’t be able to sell what they catch or kill? Or something else?

If it's proven that wet markets are a breeding ground for novel viruses, then yeah, clearly they should be banned.

Banned by who? Looking at the relative impact of the virus it seems the US is harder hit. Although the virus appears to be a tragic accident, a weakened US allows other nations to make advances.

That being said, I tend to agree with your assertion.

Re: Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

#122

Post by katmannthree »

ikeboy wrote: post #112
katmannthree wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atrazine causing feminization in frogs is an undisputed fact, but the statement as given ("they put chemicals in the water TO turn frogs gay") is absolutely not. Atrazine is used because it's a cheap and effective herbicide, frog feminization is a side effect which doesn't factor into decisions about its use.

Ah yes, technically the chemicals are being put in the water and are turning the frogs gay but you see, they only intended to put the chemicals in the water and didn't specifically intend to turn the frogs gay.

Atrazine isn't intentionally put into water, it ending up in water reservoirs is a second order effect of its primary use as an herbicide. Its subsequent tertiary effects on the ecosystem are far removed from the people who applied it, who were just looking for an easy way to kill weeds.

Re: Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

#123

Post by petermcneeley »

ikeboy wrote: post #112
katmannthree wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atrazine causing feminization in frogs is an undisputed fact, but the statement as given ("they put chemicals in the water TO turn frogs gay") is absolutely not. Atrazine is used because it's a cheap and effective herbicide, frog feminization is a side effect which doesn't factor into decisions about its use.

Ah yes, technically the chemicals are being put in the water and are turning the frogs gay but you see, they only intended to put the chemicals in the water and didn't specifically intend to turn the frogs gay.

That is a misquote. He implied human social engineering potentially as a side effect.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alex_Jones

Re: Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

#124

Post by rcpt »

bearbin wrote: post #36

Whenever this topic comes up, the discussion seems to consist largely of _extremely_ strong opinions against the perfectly plausible hypothesis (don't forget, the evidence of zoonotic origin is equally thin on the ground). My question is, why? What does it matter whether the virus originated from a lab or from a wet market - it isn't any more dangerous if it came from a lab, nor does knowing the origin really help de…

A very calm response to this

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/47/29246

> Why do these distinctions matter? If we find more concrete evidence of a “spill-over” event with SARS-CoV-2 passing directly from bat to human, then efforts to understand and manage the bat–human interface need to be significantly strengthened. But if SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab to cause the pandemic, it will become critical to understand the chain of events and prevent this from happening again.

Re: Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

#125

Post by mschuster91 »

DevKoala wrote: post #47
bearbin wrote: post #36

Whenever this topic comes up, the discussion seems to consist largely of _extremely_ strong opinions against the perfectly plausible hypothesis (don't forget, the evidence of zoonotic origin is equally thin on the ground). My question is, why? What does it matter whether the virus originated from a lab or from a wet market - it isn't any more dangerous if it came from a lab, nor does knowing the origin really help de…

Because it would make China liable, and for the majority of individuals, their stance on China as a good actor in global matters is now linked to their American political allegiance. It is hard for many folks to reconcile both.

For what it's worth China is seen as a threat by many people in Western countries irrespective of political allegiance... the nationalist/right wing doesn't like Chinese price dumping and espionage, the left wing is pissed about China's atrocious human rights and environmental track record.

Re: Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

#126

Post by eznzt »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #109
eznzt wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a joke on his 'I don't like them putting chemicals in the water that turn the friggin' frogs gay!' famous sentence? Because it's true: https://www.pnas.org/content/107/10/4612

Well, "to" would imply it was intentional, which I don't believe is the case here. :)

I have corrected the quote.

Re: Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

#127

Post by MattGaiser »

ikeboy wrote: post #112
katmannthree wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atrazine causing feminization in frogs is an undisputed fact, but the statement as given ("they put chemicals in the water TO turn frogs gay") is absolutely not. Atrazine is used because it's a cheap and effective herbicide, frog feminization is a side effect which doesn't factor into decisions about its use.

Ah yes, technically the chemicals are being put in the water and are turning the frogs gay but you see, they only intended to put the chemicals in the water and didn't specifically intend to turn the frogs gay.

The chemicals are not being intentionally put in the water at all. They are sprayed onto plants and then run off into the water. Atrazine is a herbicide.

Re: Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

#128

Post by mschuster91 »

IanCal wrote: post #115
dangero wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, even if this was not developed in a lab, every government in the world is now 100% aware of the potential uses for bioweapons. We should discuss how we would deal with and detect attacks like that in the future. Furthermore, we should talk about ethical disclosure responsibilities that all countries can agree on for outbreaks going forward as well as what will happen if those rules are not followed. For example,…

Seems like a great example of why a bioweapon like this is a terrible idea. I don't think more disclosures would have helped a lot of the countries. China locked what 10M people in January and lots of the world essentially went "huh". There were reports of welding people into their homes when UK rates were in double digits. We seem to have done little with the already very public information so what would have happen…

A bioweapon like coronavirus is a terrible idea in ordinary war, but a massive asset in a last-effort or scorched-earth scenario. I would not be surprised if despite all bans any nuclear (super)power does not have at least three different agents under development.

Re: Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it

#129

Post by krona »

bearbin wrote: post #36

Whenever this topic comes up, the discussion seems to consist largely of _extremely_ strong opinions against the perfectly plausible hypothesis (don't forget, the evidence of zoonotic origin is equally thin on the ground). My question is, why? What does it matter whether the virus originated from a lab or from a wet market - it isn't any more dangerous if it came from a lab, nor does knowing the origin really help de…

it isn't any more dangerous if it came from a lab, nor does knowing the origin really help dealing with this crisis at all.

Viruses used for gain of function research are selected for high rates of mutation and adaption. If we had known this from day one we would likely have made several changes to how to protect against it in the long term, especially with regards to cross-species transmission.

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