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Help from HN: Investor wants to sue me

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Re: Help from HN: Investor wants to sue me

#11
post #2

Usually the protection against an investor suing a startup is that no startup in the future would take his money. But of course that only works if the investor wants to invest in more startups in the future. Does he? Incidentally, this is one (of many) reasons it's better to take money from experienced angels. They have a brand to preserve.

Hi - thanks for replying, much appreciated. No, he invests in anything that can make him money (property, clothing etc). He has maybe two or three tech investments. You're absolutely right about taking money from experienced angels, I'd add always take money from somebody who understands the sector. Seems obvious, I know.

If he wants to invest in more startups, it may work to point out to him how tightly connected the founder community is. He may simply not realize the cost of maltreating you. But an investor suing a startup he invested in is so rare that a story about it could not fail to attract the attention of every other startup in his market.

Re: Help from HN: Investor wants to sue me

#12
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree on this, but find a replacement (or firm) that will be willing to take on the project and work with the investor to make sure it gets done.

I sort of agree with everyone who says "talk to a lawyer", but once you start communicating via lawyers it's more likely that everyone loses. When I say sit down, I suggest meeting in some neutral territory in an off the record context. If you are past this then you need to lawyer up.

Everything posted here suggests that these guys are WAY past the point of amicable resolution. Given the (now total) destruction of goodwill trust between the parties, there is no reasonable expectation of their salvaging a working relationship. Accordingly, the only course of action is for both sides to cut their losses and move on.

Unfortunately, the investor seems to have little interest in simply moving on. Assuming that the OP is being accurate about his own limited finances, it's fair to say that the investor has no hope of recovering even a fraction of his ~$150k. Accordingly, this is not a rational (if exceedingly hard-nosed) attempt to recover money. Rather, it looks like an emotional, vindictive, and exceedingly ill-advised attempt to destroy another human being, which is pretty much the opposite of moving on.

This would remain true even if the OP had actively defrauded the investor, who'd naturally feel that his attempt to inflict pain was entirely justified. Indeed, in the event of outright fraud, the desire for serious retribution would be normal - even healthy. But the fact remains that, faced with an individual whose only discernible motive is inflicting maximum personal damage, you have precisely zero room to negotiate, unless you considers a discussion about which kneecap to sacrifice a 'negotiation'.

Assuming that the OP acted in good faith (which his own significant financial contributions suggest he did), he still has some leverage in his ability keep what appears to be egregious conduct on the part of the investor confidential. Obviously, a trial would mean full public disclosure of the guy's true nature - something which could have significant impact on his other investments. A good lawyer would recognize this immediately, and use it to maximum effect when responding. More importantly, a good lawyer would be able to make credible threats a way that it consistent with the law, which is something that the OP is almost certainly unable to safely do on his own.

One more thing the OP has in his favor is a clear appreciation that a loss would be personally catastrophic, which makes him far more dangerous in a fight. Indeed, the investor may have overplayed his hand by insisting on his full pound of flesh. With bankruptcy a foregone conclusion, the investor's irrational, go-for-the-jugular approach frees the OP to become VERY aggressive in his own defense. This is something else that a good lawyer will recognize as a valuable piece of leverage, and will use to maximum effect. As a wise fortune cookie once said, "never chase a dog into a dead-end alley".

Re: Help from HN: Investor wants to sue me

#13
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of agree with everyone who says "talk to a lawyer", but once you start communicating via lawyers it's more likely that everyone loses. When I say sit down, I suggest meeting in some neutral territory in an off the record context. If you are past this then you need to lawyer up.

Everything posted here suggests that these guys are WAY past the point of amicable resolution. Given the (now total) destruction of goodwill trust between the parties, there is no reasonable expectation of their salvaging a working relationship. Accordingly, the only course of action is for both sides to cut their losses and move on. Unfortunately, the investor seems to have little interest in simply moving on. Assum…

I agree with what you are saying for the most part. The relationship seems trashed. However, I don't think that the investor is at a disadvantage legally, at least he wouldn't be in the US. Here the legal system is the perfect tool for a rich individual/organization to bully and harass anyone without a sizeable legal warchest. See: Scientology. So my advice is still to try every diplomatic strategem you can. Don't just assume this investor is just a total dick. There is some evidence to the contrary: he funded this young guy in the first place. If it is all about emotion, then try to find a psychological solution.

Re: Help from HN: Investor wants to sue me

#14
post #13
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything posted here suggests that these guys are WAY past the point of amicable resolution. Given the (now total) destruction of goodwill trust between the parties, there is no reasonable expectation of their salvaging a working relationship. Accordingly, the only course of action is for both sides to cut their losses and move on. Unfortunately, the investor seems to have little interest in simply moving on. Assum…

I agree with what you are saying for the most part. The relationship seems trashed. However, I don't think that the investor is at a disadvantage legally, at least he wouldn't be in the US. Here the legal system is the perfect tool for a rich individual/organization to bully and harass anyone without a sizeable legal warchest. See: Scientology. So my advice is still to try every diplomatic strategem you can. Don't ju…

From what I understand, UK law recognizes this avenue for abuse, and responds (in a way American law doesn't) by making a suit's loser automatically responsible for their opponent's legal costs.

It's also worth noting that bullies (which is something the investor seems to be in spades) are famously unresponsive to anything but genuine fear and humiliation. It's a big part of what makes them such a scourge, since peaceful people of good will are so naturally reluctant to respond in kind. All the more reason to hire an experienced lawyer, since they're not only capable of making credible and effective threats, but can safely do so within the narrow, and highly technical constraints permitted by law.

If the OP is still interested in being diplomatic, he can honestly say that he and his investor have found themselves at a legal impasse that their contract did not clearly anticipate. For this reason, he's retained a lawyer to advise him on what's likely to be the most mutually beneficial resolution, and will be letting this individual handle the conversation from here.

Re: Help from HN: Investor wants to sue me

#15
post #6
post #4

Sit down with your investor and work something out. If you just split you may be dooming his investment. You need to offer him a path that could possibly lead to him recouping his investment at some point in the future. Can you find a replacement? Can you give up some equity? Since you are done, is there anything you can do to make things easier?

Agree on this, but find a replacement (or firm) that will be willing to take on the project and work with the investor to make sure it gets done.

"Here's a guy for whom I spent 6 months working for free and now he's threatening to sue me" is not a sweet opener. This kind of client is very hard to find a replacement for.
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