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ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

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Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#101

Post by hinkley »

Roritharr wrote: post #2

Once again i'm amazed what ALSO has a processor in it. I'm wondering if at some point I'll just see it as normal that nearly every device, no matter how static it may seem, has more processing power than my first computer.

It’s been said before, about ROM chips for sure, but I don’t know if history necessarily agrees regarding other chips, that there’s a point at which the opportunity cost of “just enough” silicon is too high and so you end up with a choice between way more than you need for simple tasks, or doing without (eg, embedding that responsibility in some other chip).

I think a lot of projects will be targeting ARM CPUs in the next era of computing, and I hope one day we will see entire processes moving off the cpu and onto peripherals.

Give me a RAID controller that can run Postgres directly on it, or an SSD that can run SQLite. Give me a network card that runs eBPF, or even nginx.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#102

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

xg15 wrote: post #27

Apart from the processors, I'm amazed/bewildered that USB is now complex enough, that the power component of it has its own serial communication protocol (USB-PD), which also has a vendor registry and is extensible with proprietary messages - and by the looks of it, is already in widespread use for all sorts of things that have nothing to do with power delivery. Isn't this sort of reinventing USB on top of USB?

Not any different than Ethernet's add on methods of OOB signaling for link integrity testing and auto-negotiation.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#103

Post by xxpor »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #21
canofbars wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem I see is when IoT crap starts getting 4/5g modems with their own network plans so they can spy on you even while not connected to wifi

They already do. I was looking at a sensor package (light, temp, humidity, particulates) earlier and it comes with a cellular modem and a free SIM with a modest data allowance for 2 years to send readings to the cloud.

I wish Zwave/zigbee were more practical to use. I'm not too worried about someone local pulling readings out of the air, but giving all of this crap access to my wifi, relying on cloud services that could go down at any time, and even adding a bridge straight in (your SIM comment) is just rediculous. For things like cameras or other high bandwidth applications wifi makes sense, but for the usual sensor/switch stuff, there's no need for a full IP network.

Plus, all of the stuff controlled locally means the latency is sooooooooo much lower. It's awesome being able to hit a switch in the homeassistant app and have the corisponding plug or light turn on instantly. It's like you're flipping a physical switch.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#104

Post by yellow_postit »

bluejekyll wrote: post #90
bochoh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we’re more likely to see a port-less (read MagSafe only) iPhone sooner than a USB-C version. I will say the iPad Pro with USB-C was a revelation for usability though. Not to mention companies like Flir being able to create one product line.

I don’t know about that. The physical port is still useful for hard resets and management of a “bricked” device (granted I’ve only needed that on an older device, and never on the model I currently have).

Does Apple still get a cut in lightning licensing? If so I think they will move engineering heaven and earth to avoid losing that revenue stream so also agree with the above poster that I’d put money on moving to the wireless.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#105

Post by colejohnson66 »

greggturkington wrote: post #97
xg15 wrote: post #27

Apart from the processors, I'm amazed/bewildered that USB is now complex enough, that the power component of it has its own serial communication protocol (USB-PD), which also has a vendor registry and is extensible with proprietary messages - and by the looks of it, is already in widespread use for all sorts of things that have nothing to do with power delivery. Isn't this sort of reinventing USB on top of USB?

"Oh, 'USB 3.2 Gen 2' (aka 'USB 3.1' or 'USB 3.1 Gen 2' OR 'USB 3.2 Gen 2')?" "There's your problem, you need 'USB 3.2 Gen 2 × 2 .' You idiot!"

Just wait for USB4!

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#106

Post by conradev »

xxpor wrote: post #103
M2Ys4U wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already do. I was looking at a sensor package (light, temp, humidity, particulates) earlier and it comes with a cellular modem and a free SIM with a modest data allowance for 2 years to send readings to the cloud.

I wish Zwave/zigbee were more practical to use. I'm not too worried about someone local pulling readings out of the air, but giving all of this crap access to my wifi, relying on cloud services that could go down at any time, and even adding a bridge straight in (your SIM comment) is just rediculous. For things like cameras or other high bandwidth applications wifi makes sense, but for the usual sensor/switch stuff,…

> I wish Zwave/zigbee were more practical to use.

That is essentially what Thread is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol)

It takes the Zigbee protocol, but adds encryption and makes devices IP-adressable. All of the major players are committed to supporting it, too!

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#107

Post by michaelt »

xxpor wrote: post #100
michaelt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many microcontrollers (PIC, STM32, atmega8 etc) include an internal RC oscillator - which is literally inside the chip itself. Zero external components required. Not only do you save the costs of using a crystal, you also save two pins - which was useful in the days of 8-pin microcontrollers like the ATtiny85. As internal RC oscillator drift rates can be as much as 10% (and vary with temperature) they're not precise…

I know next to nothing about microcontrollers, so this might be a dumb question, but how do they do the initial flashing is they can't run a serial port? Are they hooked up to something external before going on the final PCB? Do they not need a precise clock to read the onboard program from whatever's storing it?

Even if you've got a really inaccurate clock, you can still accept synchronous protocols like SPI and I2C where the bus master provides a clock signal.

Every chip brand would have their own protocol and provide their own programming hardware that could speak it.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#108

Post by saagarjha »

bluejekyll wrote: post #90
bochoh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we’re more likely to see a port-less (read MagSafe only) iPhone sooner than a USB-C version. I will say the iPad Pro with USB-C was a revelation for usability though. Not to mention companies like Flir being able to create one product line.

I don’t know about that. The physical port is still useful for hard resets and management of a “bricked” device (granted I’ve only needed that on an older device, and never on the model I currently have).

Apple could keep around a hidden diagnostic port, like they do on Apple Watch and HomePod.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#109

Post by com2kid »

laumars wrote: post #82
bluefirex wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C is now a requirement for me to upgrade my iPhone. I'm holding onto my XS until they switch to that.

I had to clean the lightning socket on my iPhone XS as it had some pocket fluff inside that prevented the cable from filling clicking in. Cleaning it was trivial, just some cardboard and a well positioned light source. On the flip side, cleaning out USB-C sockets from the same types of fluff is a pain because the data pins are in an island in the middle of the socket. Which gives you both less room (is requiring you…

> Which gives you both less room (is requiring you to use a thinner implement) but also a greater risk of damaging the socket.

A flattened wood toothpick works great for this. Take a regular round pointy toothpick and flatten the end 5mm or so by squeezing it in a pair of pliers or some such.

I was ready to replace my phone until I learned this trick. I had already tried cleaning the port out, but obviously not well enough.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#110

Post by grishka »

bluejekyll wrote: post #41
bluefirex wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgot to take my MacBook Pro's charger with me but could still charge it using my iPad's charger (USB-A to USB-C, mind you) - albeit very slowly. Still better than nothing, though. If only iPhones had USB-C…

Yes, Apple seems to be very confused in this regard. They’ve committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices. It’s hard not to be annoyed at them about this. Enough to not buy Apple again? No, not yet, but I’d be lying if it’s not a reason why I’ve delayed purchasing a new device. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and makes me grumpy. So I’l…

What's funnier is that Apple already has an iOS device that has USB-C for its main port, the iPad Pro. So I'd presume most of the engineering work to get rid of Lightning completely has already been done at this point.

On Switch, I did charge mine from a powerbank with a USB-A to USB-C cable, it did work but there clearly wasn't enough power. The battery kept draining but very slowly.

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