ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets • Hacker News Board

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#41

Post by bluejekyll » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

bluefirex wrote: post #38

TheRealSteel wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lost the charger for my Nintendo DS, I was able to MacGyver one out of a piece of cardboard and two strips of aluminium foil. A quick look at the USB-A port spec, and pin locations on the similar-to-USB-but-proprietary DS charging port indicated it was a very simple construction. Amazingly, this hack worked successfully and I was able to have my yearly Elite Beat Agents binge. The hardest part was actually not…

I forgot to take my MacBook Pro's charger with me but could still charge it using my iPad's charger (USB-A to USB-C, mind you) - albeit very slowly. Still better than nothing, though. If only iPhones had USB-C…

Yes, Apple seems to be very confused in this regard. They’ve committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices.

It’s hard not to be annoyed at them about this. Enough to not buy Apple again? No, not yet, but I’d be lying if it’s not a reason why I’ve delayed purchasing a new device. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and makes me grumpy. So I’ll wait to upgrade to the last moment.

On a similar note, it seems Nintendo with the switch has hobbled USB-C in some way that standard equipment won’t work with it, like charging over generic USB-C, is this accurate? Has Sony similarly hobbled the spec for PS4/5?

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#42

Post by xxs » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

bb123 wrote: post #7

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every microSD card has had an ARM cpu core in it since forever. The Bluetooth radio chip in your phone and the RF chip in your car's key fob already have multicore CPUs inside. Even your optical mouse has a multicore CPU in it to handle image processing and translate the optical feed into motion packaged into USB HID frames. Your fast phone charger has a CPU in it to monitor and negociate power delivery t…

This fascinates me. Is there a website anywhere that is collecting these sorts of use cases? It seems truly mind blowing something as simple as an electric toothbrush would have a processor in it.

>Is there a website anywhere...

I doubt, pretty much anything that has electronic circuitry has got a micro processor - it's an off the shelf component, well understood, much easier to change/modify and test than custom built analog circuitry. For example - what's the option to save any end user settings with analog devises - knobs/potentiometers.... Compared non-volatile memory like NAND, the cost (and space and weight) differences are orders of magnitude.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#43

Post by robin_reala » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:14 PM UTC

bluejekyll wrote: post #41

bluefirex wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgot to take my MacBook Pro's charger with me but could still charge it using my iPad's charger (USB-A to USB-C, mind you) - albeit very slowly. Still better than nothing, though. If only iPhones had USB-C…

Yes, Apple seems to be very confused in this regard. They’ve committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices. It’s hard not to be annoyed at them about this. Enough to not buy Apple again? No, not yet, but I’d be lying if it’s not a reason why I’ve delayed purchasing a new device. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and makes me grumpy. So I’l…

Not for all their portable devices; the iPad Pros have been USB-C since 2018, and the iPad Air since September this year.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#44

Post by amelius » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:20 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #27

Apart from the processors, I'm amazed/bewildered that USB is now complex enough, that the power component of it has its own serial communication protocol (USB-PD), which also has a vendor registry and is extensible with proprietary messages - and by the looks of it, is already in widespread use for all sorts of things that have nothing to do with power delivery. Isn't this sort of reinventing USB on top of USB?

And it still hasn't got error correction?

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#45

Post by swiley » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:26 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #27

Apart from the processors, I'm amazed/bewildered that USB is now complex enough, that the power component of it has its own serial communication protocol (USB-PD), which also has a vendor registry and is extensible with proprietary messages - and by the looks of it, is already in widespread use for all sorts of things that have nothing to do with power delivery. Isn't this sort of reinventing USB on top of USB?

I remember thinking USB2.0 was over complicated, this is absolutely insane.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#46

Post by eru » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:26 PM UTC

bluejekyll wrote: post #41

bluefirex wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgot to take my MacBook Pro's charger with me but could still charge it using my iPad's charger (USB-A to USB-C, mind you) - albeit very slowly. Still better than nothing, though. If only iPhones had USB-C…

Yes, Apple seems to be very confused in this regard. They’ve committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices. It’s hard not to be annoyed at them about this. Enough to not buy Apple again? No, not yet, but I’d be lying if it’s not a reason why I’ve delayed purchasing a new device. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and makes me grumpy. So I’l…

I can charge my Switch on random USB-C power sources.

(No clue whether it's as effective as the included charger, but certainly works well enough.)

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#47

Post by breakfastduck » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

bluejekyll wrote: post #41

bluefirex wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgot to take my MacBook Pro's charger with me but could still charge it using my iPad's charger (USB-A to USB-C, mind you) - albeit very slowly. Still better than nothing, though. If only iPhones had USB-C…

Yes, Apple seems to be very confused in this regard. They’ve committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices. It’s hard not to be annoyed at them about this. Enough to not buy Apple again? No, not yet, but I’d be lying if it’s not a reason why I’ve delayed purchasing a new device. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and makes me grumpy. So I’l…

I think they're keeping lightening to help their 'eco' brand.

They just removed chargers from the iPhone box because 'everyone has one' - if they suddenly changed to USB-C on iPhone it would create a LOT of ewaste.

I still think they should switch, but I reckon it's because they'd get accused of hypocrisy if they deprecated it.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#48

Post by imwillofficial » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

xxs wrote: post #40

Roritharr wrote: post #2

Once again i'm amazed what ALSO has a processor in it. I'm wondering if at some point I'll just see it as normal that nearly every device, no matter how static it may seem, has more processing power than my first computer.

Virtually every power tool has a micro-processor inside. LED dimmers have micro-processors. Christmas LEDs (that can blink) have micro-processors in the control block. Compared to Apple II, they might have more computation power but usually not 48KBs of memory.

I mean, nobody would ever need more memory than that anyway

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#49

Post by nfriedly » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:32 PM UTC

bluejekyll wrote: post #41

bluefirex wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgot to take my MacBook Pro's charger with me but could still charge it using my iPad's charger (USB-A to USB-C, mind you) - albeit very slowly. Still better than nothing, though. If only iPhones had USB-C…

Yes, Apple seems to be very confused in this regard. They’ve committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices. It’s hard not to be annoyed at them about this. Enough to not buy Apple again? No, not yet, but I’d be lying if it’s not a reason why I’ve delayed purchasing a new device. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and makes me grumpy. So I’l…

As I understand it, Nintendo didn't intentionally hobble their USB-C port, they just screwed up the Power Delivery implementation. (And didn't care enough to fix it.)

Some chargers are tolerant of Nintendo's mistakes, others aren't.

Re: ACE: Apple Type-C Port Controller Secrets

#50

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:35 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #27

Apart from the processors, I'm amazed/bewildered that USB is now complex enough, that the power component of it has its own serial communication protocol (USB-PD), which also has a vendor registry and is extensible with proprietary messages - and by the looks of it, is already in widespread use for all sorts of things that have nothing to do with power delivery. Isn't this sort of reinventing USB on top of USB?

[deleted]