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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#541
post #321
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cases like there were actually investigating can land the people doing the investigating in prison, I think proceed according to the cautionary principle. So, if a tyrannical dictatorship like China is accused of abusing human rights and said tyrannical dictatorship is not willing to let people investigate the claims, we can accept the accusations as true until aforementioned tyrannical dictatorship is willing to…

> tyrannical dictatorship I honestly think that's a bit too far.

Agreed that it is a bit too far. Emphasis on the bit.

It is a de-facto dictatorship and it is tyrannical by many definitions.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#542

I’ve minimized my consumption of meat over the years, because the way we treat animals in the factory farms is too cruel. It’s not perfect, because I eat dairy and eggs which introduce their own set of cruelty. Likewise, I’m severely disappointed by Apple. I’ve switched from Android to iPhone because I like Apple’s stance on privacy. I’m extremely bothered that Apple with its resource is not lobbying to change the pl…

Maybe you'd be interested in a Fairphone Another vegetarian here btw; I also didn't go all the way to becoming a vegan

How is Fairphone any better than Apple on this issue ?

They make use of third party Chinese suppliers who they haven't audited.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#543

To the tune of Childish Gambinos "This is America": This is globalism This was always the point of offloading to other countries. Less regulations, lower wages, less powerful workers and workers unions, and higher profit margins. Ross Perot was right but nobody listened to him. Apple isnt unique, and this isnt the first time. Its systemic. So tired of the trope of accusing anybody critical of globalism of being an is…

I agree, but globalism has on the whole improved the human condition by a lot. The vast majority of people aren’t middle-class citizens of developed countries. Like everything, balance is key.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#544

As long as companies Apple are not legally responsible for their supply chain in front of developed countries’ courts nothing will change. In Switzerland a law that would have changed this was recently rejected. Hopefully another country makes the first step.

The USA still allows prison slave labor, so good luck with that.

Examples: [1]

    Whole Foods – This organic supermarket buys artisan cheeses and fishes from companies that employ inmates.

    McDonald’s – Certain McDonald store items such as cutlery and containers were made in prison. Prisoners also sew their employee uniforms, and they only make a few cents an hour from it.

    Target – Since the early 2000s, Target has relied on suppliers that are known to use prison labor.

    IBM – Apparently, inmates from Lockhart Prison in Texas manufacture this tech giant’s circuit boards.

    Texas Instruments – Like IBM, their circuit boards are also made by prisoners. They even got a new factory assembly room specially made for inmate laborers.

    Boeing – A subcontractor of Boeing was found to have used inmates to cut airplane components. Unsurprisingly, the prisoners only get paid less than a quarter of the usual wage for such type of work.

    Nordstrom – The company was once under fire for selling jeans made by inmates. They have since stopped the practice though, and have promised not to use involuntary labor of any kind again.

    Intel – Like other tech giants in this list, Intel has also outsourced labor from prison. Some of their computer parts were made in a prison manufacturing facility.

    Walmart – Despite pledging not to sell products made by prisoners, some of the retail giant’s subcontractors were using prison labor to dispose of customer returns and excess inventory.

    Victoria’s Secret – The top American underwear designer was paying inmates peanuts to make their expensive lingerie.
    AT&T – Rather than outsource their call centers to other English-speaking countries, AT&T hired prisoners instead. The problem is, they only receive $2 an hour for a job that usually pays $15.

    British Petroleum (BP) – In 2010, BP hired Louisiana inmates to clean up an oil spill. They received no payment from it.

    Starbucks – We all know that Starbucks employees make little hourly. But the prisoners who make the packaged coffee sold in their stores make even much less money. They only receive as little as 23 cents an hour.

    Microsoft – In the 1990s, Microsoft made a conscious decision to hire prisoners to pack their software and mouse. A spokesperson at that time even claimed that the company sees nothing wrong about it.

    Honda Motor Company – The Japanese car company hires inmates from Ohio Mansfield Correctional Institution to make some of its car parts. As expected, the company paid them next to nothing.

    Macy’s – Like Walmart and Target, this retail giant also uses prison labor to save on its operating costs.

    Sprint – Following the footsteps of its competitor, AT&T, Sprint also staffs its call centers with underpaid inmates.

    Nintendo – To pack their Game Boys, Nintendo hired a subcontractor who, in turn, hires prisoners at deplorable rates.

    JC Penney – Since the 90s, JC Penney has used prison labor for its clothing line. Female inmates used to sew leisurewear sold in their stores, and more recently, prisoners from Tennessee are making jeans for them.

    Wendy’s – As part of its cost-cutting measures, Wendy’s uses prison labor to process beef for their hamburgers.

[1] https://blog.globaltel.com/companies-use-prison-labor/

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#545
post #13

Why should I believe what the "Tech Transparency Project" (funded by Open Society Foundations) says over what Apple and China say? Honest question.

Honest question in return, why should I distrust it? The claims seem to be roughly in line with many other reports about the Xinjiang region, China's government and worker conditions in the tech sector. Is there something you are implying?

You trust everything you read?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#546

I’ve decided to leave the Apple ecosystem in 2021. But the problem is not isolated to Apple. In fact, I’d be surprised if other, cheaper products aren’t quite a bit worse. Is there an electronics company that does a better job? (That’s not a rhetorical question.)

One way to punish them is to simply buy less. Upgrading electronics is usually superfluous.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#547
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the republic of China has never been more autocratic This is a more nuanced issue than it might seem in some ways though. I have some first hand experience since many of my coworkers are native Chinese living in different parts of China. Trade has enabled the growth of a previously non-existent middle class in China and they have started to assert political power in ways not immediately apparent to Westerners. One…

> American treatment of South American migrants Migrants, or illegal immigrants?

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#548

Recently, Apple's supplier, Wistron faced revolt after treating workers unfairly here in India. And India is not really the most shining example of protecting our workers from unfair and harsh working conditions. So, if such treatments don't fly here, I don't think they will fly anywhere else. The kind of labor expectation that these companies have after their stints in China is ethically incompatible with most other…

Note that immediately after this become public, Apple put Wistron on probation refusing to award them any more work and requiring them to resolve the issues. Governments really need to do the heavy lifting though because apart from refusing to hand over money/work they are very limited in what they can do.

> immediately after this become public, Apple put Wistron on probation

That's far too late and at that point they had no choice. They deserve no credit for doing it.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#549

To the tune of Childish Gambinos "This is America": This is globalism This was always the point of offloading to other countries. Less regulations, lower wages, less powerful workers and workers unions, and higher profit margins. Ross Perot was right but nobody listened to him. Apple isnt unique, and this isnt the first time. Its systemic. So tired of the trope of accusing anybody critical of globalism of being an is…

Isn't it just 1 parameter: cheaper? This kind of work is outsourcing anyway. So I think all the things you mention there have no impact, since it all wouldn't matter when the price would be the same.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#550
What always surprises me in discussions on this topic is that many (seemingly) Chinese-origin commenters are bewildered that anyone opposes China's behavior. They've fully bought into the CCP narrative that the Govt is merely making the best decision for a lazy and unproductive people. Stripping people of the ability to choose their identity, stripping them of freedom of thought, stripping them of language and culture, stripping them of choice itself because their primary purpose is industrial output is wrong. I have no illusions that outside forces will change China's practices, but I don't see how they build a harmonious and prosperous society long term while doing what they're doing to large chunks of their population. So much of western innovation is based on immigrants ability to leave repressive govts for freedom of thought and practice. Will China ever be able to move from copying IP and manufacturing for others into inventing for itself?
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