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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#461

Post by simonh »

fsflover wrote: post #452
simonh wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Apple are also the highest rated tech company by Greenpeace for environmental issues after Fairphone.

That's quite strange given what they have been doing with repair: http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-imposs... https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recyc... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489

Repair is only a factor because it contributes to device longevity, but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way. In theory they could make it even longer but it's a relatively marginal issue in environmental terms. I agree there are other reasons that make it desirable as well and every little helps, but the fact remains iPhones have industry leading overall environmental impact.

“..researchers found that brand, an intangible property, is more important than repairability or memory size in extending the life of a product.”[0]

The article found that Apple phones last on average a year longer than Samsung’s.

[0]https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142434.h...

Another estimate puts Apple device lifespans at 4 years 3 months.[1]

[1]https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-ipad-mac-heres-how-long...

The average for all smartphones is estimated as from 2 to 3 years, but bear in mind that includes many Apple devices, so non Apple devices must average the low end of that.[2]

[2]https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/lifespan-smartphone.html

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#462

Post by dang »

baybal2 wrote: post #453

Have anybody noticed how this topic mysterious lost few hundred points, sank to second page, and then came back to front? There is a noticable tendency for any China related topics, whether good, or bad to mysteriously disappear from the front page right at the start of the workday Pacific time, and after lunch hours.

There is a noticeable tendency for people with strong feelings on this topic to make up strong narratives about what they think they're seeing on HN. In fact, it's an extremely noticeable tendency.

This was a mundane case of merging threads, which is bog standard HN moderation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25574136. I could have just changed the URL on the other one, but preferred to go with the submitter who actually posted the story first and also posted the original article, in keeping with the site guidelines ("Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter.")

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#463

Post by syedkarim »

cgb223 wrote: post #444
eznzt wrote: post #13

Why should I believe what the "Tech Transparency Project" (funded by Open Society Foundations) says over what Apple and China say? Honest question.

Who is behind the Open Society Foundation? Anyone super political?

George Soros

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#464

Post by ricardobeat »

Causality1 wrote: post #458
baybal2 wrote: post #453

Have anybody noticed how this topic mysterious lost few hundred points, sank to second page, and then came back to front? There is a noticable tendency for any China related topics, whether good, or bad to mysteriously disappear from the front page right at the start of the workday Pacific time, and after lunch hours.

Pay attention for a while and you'll notice there's quite a list of topics and positions that are verboten,either because they have a personal army who care about them or there's a finger on the scale. For example, lightly and generally criticizing China will get you a lot of upvotes. Criticizing China in specific ways and proposing strategies of action will get your comment down voted and flagged.

It's part of the HN guidelines to avoid political topics: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I would imagine Apple et al get a pass since they are strong interests of the audience here.

    Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#465

Post by MaxHoppersGhost »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #80
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We let China get too big without modernizing/democratizing. Massive foreign policy failure by the western world. Now they appear too big to reign in and everyone (except maybe the US) is scared of them and just wants to play nice.

We "let" them get too big? They are an ancient society who have had millions of inhabitants for centuries. They were already big, huge in fact. In the wake of Mao, however, they have a one party communist system that exterminated it's intellectual and critical class decades ago. Hard to see what could've been done during the Cold War, we tried the domino theory which was a colossal failure in Korea and Vietnam and La…

We let them get too big economically. We let them into the western world trading economy under the hope that they would normalize into a western-like democracy with liberal ideals. That has obviously failed.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#466

Post by arminiusreturns »

To the tune of Childish Gambinos "This is America": This is globalism

This was always the point of offloading to other countries. Less regulations, lower wages, less powerful workers and workers unions, and higher profit margins. Ross Perot was right but nobody listened to him. Apple isnt unique, and this isnt the first time. Its systemic.

So tired of the trope of accusing anybody critical of globalism of being an isolationist. Protectionism is a valid and needed (to a certain degree) approach for all nation states, ours included.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#467

Post by powerapple »

TheKarateKid wrote: post #431
powerapple wrote: post #188

1) Is there a shortage of labour in China? 2) Why do you setup a factory in areas far away from other factory and transport the components far away to Shenzhen assemble and export? 3) Were these workers paid? And were they paid fairly? I can understand the situation. The Chinese government is trying to improve the economy in Xinjiang and encouraged companies to setup factories there. Ruled by a communist government,…

Please re-write your comment in the same vein, except this time about Pre World War 2 Germany and Hitler, and let me know if you have the balls to hit the submit button.

I am not in Germany and you are not Hitler, well, I hope. Why do I need to do that? Journalists can publish things without evidence to backup their claims, and I cannot describe what I think?

No, I don't believe there are forced labour. I put it this way. In another BBC report regarding the cotton workers a few weeks ago, the source (newspaper scan copies) has shown that in the past, companies import workers from neighboring provinces, and this year, to help the local economy, they make sure jobs will be provided to locals instead. You can still see those on BBC websites. It is not translated into English of course.

When I say independence, I probably mean extremism

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#468

Post by MaxHoppersGhost »

jedberg wrote: post #388
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #29

I hate how American (and European) companies will virtue signal with commercials and campaigns (Apple and Nike come to mind) toting their ESG credentials but then will be doing stuff like this. People fall for it and it really pisses me off. Welcome to marketing. It’s also crazy to me that China isn’t facing more severe backlash for the treatment of the Uyghurs. It’s reprehensible and disgusting.

What exactly did Apple do? The hired a contractor, and they just found out that contractor is using slave labor, so now they are investigating. The last time they found out a contractor was using slave labor, they severed the relationship. I'm not sure what else you'd expect them to do exactly.

I would expect one of the largest and most powerful companies in the world that is always virtue signaling to have their supply chain 100% slave free. That is not a big ask.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#469

Post by ardy42 »

f6v wrote: post #321
esarbe wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cases like there were actually investigating can land the people doing the investigating in prison, I think proceed according to the cautionary principle. So, if a tyrannical dictatorship like China is accused of abusing human rights and said tyrannical dictatorship is not willing to let people investigate the claims, we can accept the accusations as true until aforementioned tyrannical dictatorship is willing to…

> tyrannical dictatorship I honestly think that's a bit too far.

>> tyrannical dictatorship

> I honestly think that's a bit too far.

Tyrannical oligarchy moving towards dictatorship, then. Better?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#470

Post by mzs »

whiddershins wrote: post #245

I flagged this article and I really would urge everyone to actually read it before commenting. I am very very concerned about China’s disregard for human rights, and I believe continuing to do business with CCP controlled companies is immoral. That said, this is unsubstantiated accusations against Apple, which Apple directly contradicts. I believe Apple has a lot of leverage and resources and probably doesn’t want to…

FWIW paragraphs 4-6 are those denials and Xinhua has just deleted the article with the photos of people (one with a non-Han name) traveling to to Lens: http://www.xj.xinhuanet.com/2020-02/24/c_1125615994.htm
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