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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#441

Post by jkestner »

seniorivn wrote: post #74
darkhorn wrote: post #16

Can't Aplle produce them in India, Albania, Vietnam, Nepal, Kazakstan or another similar country where there is no consantration camp?

it's not that simple, if it was that simple to build assembly plant operating corporations, everyone would do it, but it's hard business with very low margins. There are a few big companies capable of providing apple with enough manpower/production capabilities. And even though it's a low skill work, workers still has to be trained, and more importantly have to have high work discipline(which could be considered a pa…

But when you wield Apple's power, you control those margins. They're also different because they've been able to make privacy and recycled materials marketing points in their industry worth paying for. Why not fair labor?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#442

Post by corty »

beaunative wrote: post #293

Forced labor is quite prevalent as state-sactioned punishment, and it is much better than other kinds of punishment that exist. I don't have problem with that, that's one way how legal system pays for itself rather than siphoning fund from tax-payers' money. The difficult part for me was how opaque the process is, how the Chinese government just put people in those "camps" without due process. It is worrisome and fra…

"Due process" did probably happen, at least the Chinese version of it. Even dictatorial regimes usually have to maintain some appearance of legitimacy for the things they do. That legitimacy might not be apparent or even visible for outsiders, because it is targeted to keep a sufficient majority of citizens at bay.

And before you say "but 'due process' is well-defined anywhere", I've got a star chamber in Guantanamo to sell ;)

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#443

Post by mgh2 »

nobody9999 wrote: post #416
mgh2 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emphasis on the word "fans". Analogy: I hate Google's business model, but I still have to use their products for lack of better alternatives. The difference is that I won't go around evangelizing (i.e. marketing) their products as a consumer, pumping up demand if I knew the negative costs associated with it. On the corporate side is Apple's hypocrisy PR- i.e. don't drink their koolaid.

>Analogy: I hate Google's business model, but I still have to use their products for lack of better alternatives. I'm curious, which Google product must you use that has no reasonable analog from a different vendor? I'm not being snarky here just a little confused. I suppose Android could fall into that definition, although LineageOS[0]+MicroG[1] do provide a reasonable alternative. My question isn't rhetorical. I'm…

The obvious one, the search engine... due to its accuracy and speed. No wonder their monopoly lawsuit.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#445

Post by throwaway3699 »

duxup wrote: post #105
onepointsixC wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It changes by holding companies like Apple accountable. They are the largest company in the world for goodness sake. Their audits when so little as a picture of a manual gets leaked are incredibly thorough, yet when it comes to literal slavery they're unable to reign it in? If we were to hold executives liable for acting as slavers then it would be miraculous how quickly corporate leadership would suddenly be interes…

I think there's always some manufacturer willing to do this thing with any product, even with Apple and just continue on. We talk about slavery, that ended with state actions. I'm not sure China cares, and accordingly the practice will continue.

We have to pull manufacturing out of China until something changes, then. Each and every one of us is indirectly contributing to slavery until then.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#446

Post by not_knuth »

whiddershins wrote: post #245

I flagged this article and I really would urge everyone to actually read it before commenting. I am very very concerned about China’s disregard for human rights, and I believe continuing to do business with CCP controlled companies is immoral. That said, this is unsubstantiated accusations against Apple, which Apple directly contradicts. I believe Apple has a lot of leverage and resources and probably doesn’t want to…

I second this.

The Washington Post usually has quality content, but this one is disappointing. If you look at the author's history of articles, it's one post bashing Apple after the other (looks like there is an audience for it).

I really don't like Apple, but I like misrepresented facts a lot less.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#449

Post by TimTheTinker »

Pfhreak wrote: post #373
TimTheTinker wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and the previous poster seem to ignore that the punishment is just (to the extent that the criminal justice system is capable of justice). It's not like they're forced to work; and if they take the option, they're still under punishment doled by the justice system. So it's not immoral forced labor as long as neither the work or the jail cell constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment".

> the punishment is just I think it's reasonable to hold the belief that the punishment, especially in today's prison system, is not just.

Whether or not it’s just, it’s a separate discussion.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#450

Post by throwaway3699 »

quasse wrote: post #249
throw_m239339 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations... I don't think so. Nothing happened with Tibet, or after the Tiananmen Square event AFAIK. 20 years ago, the people that signed all the trade deals with countries such as China claimed it would lead to improving democracy and human righ…

> the republic of China has never been more autocratic This is a more nuanced issue than it might seem in some ways though. I have some first hand experience since many of my coworkers are native Chinese living in different parts of China. Trade has enabled the growth of a previously non-existent middle class in China and they have started to assert political power in ways not immediately apparent to Westerners. One…

> Before you finger wag about that, consider the American treatment of South American migrants that has come into the spotlight in the last 4 years.

South American migrants are treat fine, just not those who break in illegally (we can agree to differ if that's fair or not). I'm sorry but this is just not comparable to a possible genocide of the Uyghurs.

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