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Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

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Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#311
post #38
post #3

We reached an inflection 'amazing!' point when we are able to put '100 songs in your pocket'. That was really a shocking thing given the limitations of CD/Tape etc.. But the real inflection point may come when 'all relevant information in your local disk'. The tapes here in question can maybe store every book every written! We may be able to put the entirety of Wikipedia, every film, TV Show ever made, every book eve…

This will never, ever happen. English Wikipedia (w/o pictures) copressed is measly 20 GB. It is hard to quantify "all books ever written", but I have kept copies of some online libraries large enough that they for sure have pretty much every book you can remember and 10 000 you never heard of for every single book you can remember. It's not that much, you can fit it on 1 or 2 regular HDDs. Now, I did it because I'm t…

So I was just talking smack, but I think it might be possible.

Remember when we could do 64Kb/s reliably over the web? Then you could do 'voice'. And after that threshold was crossed, you could basically do unlimited voice very quickly.

So Wikipedia - text only - is ballpark 50G - which is to say it would fit on a single mobile phone.

That is bigger than the first Google index!

I don't know how old you are, but the notion that you could walk around with this massive database, literally the size of all of Google right in their pockets in 1999 - would have blown people's minds. It was basically unthinkable.

The rate of growth of storage has slowed down a little in the last decade but there are still jumps to be had, and it's not inconceivable that we get 100-500TB storage in the nex1 10-15 years in regular devices, meaning 10-100x that in a slightly large storage device.

While video data is expanding (4K is much bigger than original HD) it can't go on forever, meaning, just like voice and text, once we cross a certain threshold, then it becomes irrelevantly small relative to storage as well.

So I think there's some value in my point:

In 10-20 years from now, as video storage becomes 'trivial' just as text is today (aka all of wiki text on your phone) - then huge amounts of data become available, instantly.

Though some data sources change a lot - others do not.

It's not inconceivable that we put the 'entire western canon' in everyone's homes.

The other thing no so evident in my comment is that there's only so much use for all of this data.

We are getting massively smaller marginal returns for all this 'big data' we store, frankly, I question in many cases if it's worth it at all. I think a lot of companies have been duped into saving every mouse click or whatever concerning every customer. The world is just not that complicated.

What this means - is as computers miniturize - and storage as well - we may see regular data centers shift away from the cloud back to 'on premise'.

If you can fit 'infinite computing power' in a little closet, and the parts are easily replaced ... then I can see companies doing that.

The promise of cloud computing today largely rests on the economies of scale of physicality: parts take up space, cables, power, heating/cooling, you want a lot of flex/headspace, configurations.

I don't see why in 20 years from no, you can buy 'off the shelf' a 'box' that has the equivalent of 100Ec2s, 500TB of storage and multiple G/s networking cards.

You could run an entire corporate office of 1000 people from just a single box.

The 'physicality' of it all would be mundane and irrelevant. Obviously, it would be 'super complex' and still need 200 IT people to admin all of the software, but physically it could be small and cheap.

'Big maybe' of course, but there are some possibilities in there I think.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#312
post #99

Aw, c'mon chaps! Can we just admire the tech for a second? > Data on the tape is stored at a record-breaking density of 317 gigabytes per square inch... > When tape is being read it is streamed over the head at a speed of about 15 km/h and with our new servo technologies we are still able to position the tape head with an accuracy that is about 1.5 times the width of a DNA molecule.

With that kind of precision I would like to know what kind of system they use to reduce outside mechanical vibrations?

It isn't mentioned and I don't expect much other then inertia of the device itself. There is a servo mechanism assuring the head follows the tracks on tape. Improvements on that are mentioned. I don't think it matters whether the tape (necessarily) or the environment vibrates or whether that distinction is meaningful.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#313
post #99

Aw, c'mon chaps! Can we just admire the tech for a second? > Data on the tape is stored at a record-breaking density of 317 gigabytes per square inch... > When tape is being read it is streamed over the head at a speed of about 15 km/h and with our new servo technologies we are still able to position the tape head with an accuracy that is about 1.5 times the width of a DNA molecule.

> record-breaking density of 317 gigabytes per square inch...

Yawn on the raw density figure, though.

The chip inside a 128 gigabyte micro SD card is a small fraction of a square inch and is cunning enough to provide random access.

You just can't easily and cheaply have a long tape of them.

It used to be the case once upon a time that mass storage media like magnetic tapes and discs based on writing on surfaces with a head had better density than memory chips.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll know ECC works when it matters; When you encounter a flipped bit. With an 8TB RAID, that is likely to be within the next 24 months. Go with option 1, and Raid-Z2+. With RaidZ2, you’ll be able to not only detect but correct a flipped bit - Even if that flip happens when writing out the data. Pay attention to the counters. Your ZFS scrubs will report how many resilvers they have. You’re likely to encounter 1 in…

But what if a bit flips in a header or in the OS's file length field?

ZFS checksums metadata, too.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#315
post #99

Aw, c'mon chaps! Can we just admire the tech for a second? > Data on the tape is stored at a record-breaking density of 317 gigabytes per square inch... > When tape is being read it is streamed over the head at a speed of about 15 km/h and with our new servo technologies we are still able to position the tape head with an accuracy that is about 1.5 times the width of a DNA molecule.

Absolutely. I had no idea tape was being pushed to these levels! Crazy good tech accomplishment right there. In a way, I am somehow comforted. Tape remaining relevant kind of dropped off my radar. Good to see. 317Gb / square inch AND 15km/h transport speed? That is nuts fast. Wonder how robust it really is? Of course at those densities and potential transfer rates there is ample room for error recovery.

That transport speed has to just be for rewinding and fast-forwarding. If the terabyte you want is the 580th terabyte, you need a quick way to skip past terabytes 1 through 579.

The hardware is not going to read 300 Gb/in density at bicycle speeds. :)

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#316
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if it was before American TSA which sounds like it was. Now flying that much must suck cuz murcia. And you know real threats combined with gov agencies flailing about to pretend they are doing something about it. (Most of the stuff that worked had nothing to do with TSA adopted tech).

Frequent fliers are still a thing. Your post is ill informed FUD.

Still sounds like an awful job to me flying that much.

Not sure why people said it was a good thing to do. You'd be bored of the process within a couple months and hating planes and airport... unless you're a certain type of person.

A lot of traveling sales guys have talked about this.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the internet in Australia really less reliable than airline on-time performance?

Time is one factor, it's also surprisingly easy to corrupt vfx master files with just a few missing bits. Checksums will identify something went wrong, and then you need to redownload the file to a quarantine network and scan it. Takes time. Much easier to go from trusted source to trusted source and verify the files on drive prior to shipping. Amazon just released a device (forget the name) for exactly the same use…

Apologies for all the questions, I'm just curious about this.

>Checksums will identify something went wrong, and then you need to redownload the file to a quarantine network and scan it. Takes time.

Surely a sensible file transfer algorithm would compute checksums on small and easy-to-retransmit chunks? Does rsync not do this? Isn't it already happening in TCP?

>Not to mention most major studios will contractually prevent you from exposing anything to the web.

I understand that workstations with media on them are not going to have internet access, but do they really prohibit site to site VPNs?

>Amazon just released a device (forget the name) for exactly the same use case. We developed it in house.

Snowball and Snowmobile? IIRC these are primarily meant for one-time migration from on-prem storage to S3. Do people really use them on an ongoing basis?

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope.

Help me out here; which part are you saying nope to?

Archival...

Imagine saving BILLIONS of [data points](face,interactions,vids,text,etc) per person on hot or warm? NOPE

Life history will be on tape in the archives of such...

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#319
post #245
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask HN: How can I create the most reliable and durable NAS today? I have a lot of very sentimental, very-important files, such as family photos and videos. And I simply like to hoard data. I currently have 8TB of data stored on a Synology DS218+ with RAID1, and monthly data scrubs (verifying checksums). It is backed up remotely to Google Drive (in encrypted form), and I also maintain an infrequently-updated, once-per…

Write the really important data for long-term storage to MDISC BD XL media (100GB each). If it's pictures you care about, i'm sure it's far less than 8TB that need the VIP treatment

See my other replies about reliability (or lack thereof) of M-DISC.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#320
post #308
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, French national metrology and testing laboratory LNE: https://www.lne.fr/sites/default/files/inline-files/syylex-g...

> The objective of this study was to investigate the behavior of the GlassMasterDisc of Syylex under extreme climatic conditions (90°C and 85% relative humidity) and to demonstrate the potential of this technology for digital archiving. > The result of this study is that the GlassMasterDisc has a much longer lifetime in accelerated aging than other available DVD±R I wouldn't draw any other conclusions on normal agein…

Yes, they did an accelerated test, and M-DISC has performed as good as archival grade DVDs. Syylex, which promises the same lifetime as M-DISC, performed significantly better. That clearly shows either M-DISC didn't live up to their promise, or Syylex and archival grade DVDs surpassed expectations. Either is bad news for M-DISC, isn't it? What am I missing?
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