391–400 of 820 posts
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Forced Labor is considered a "Crime Against Humanity" and participants can be taken to a Court of International Law. If Apple is a willing participant, I would imagine they could be dragged in front of the Hague.
And yet: China is on the UN Human Rights Council.
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Here, invalidate stock shares
Yeah, but what does it mean? To revoke ownership of the company from its owners? Who then gets to own the company and why? Or does it mean the company should cease to exist, and all employees should be fired immediately? We should deny honest people from getting their salaries?
No change in company ownership.
Business carries on in country A. People can get new jobs.
"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
There’s an active attempt in congress to amend the constitution to abolish slavery in the US:
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/03/942413221/democrats-push-abol...
Legal, domestic forced labor is over a $2 billion dollar industry. People that refuse to work are retaliated against:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/23/prison...
Think globally, act locally.
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> Apple's supply chain is more than 1,000 companies. Do you really think Apple has the expertise and personnel to replicate what 1,000 companies have spent decades mastering? Not likely. As one of the richest corporations on the planet which always smugly tells everyone how nice they are and how much they respect people? Yes, fuck yes. They're not a mom and pop shop. They're a corporation that finds millions to lobby…
One of the reasons Jobs cited as being an important factor for locating in China is the availability of skilled labor. It would have taken them years to hire enough industrial engineers to handle the scope and scale and volume that the iPhone required in the US, if they could even manage it at all, but only weeks to do so in China. The supply chain is also important. One person who worked in Shenzhen commented that,…
But apple appear to, in the decades since the iPhone made them richer than many countries, have made zero effort whatsoever to address these issues.
Having worked at an apple supplier that they bankrupted in order to make the process entirely in-house (one of many they've done that to) I just do not buy that they could not have taken steps to divest. Some. Any.
Of course the issues are true of many other companies, but as I said in my original comment, the fact they portray some woke mentality (under which every single microscopic thing somebody does can be considered 'problematic') while continuing to take little to no action in divesting from a literally genocidal state which harvest organs says something about them.
The combination of their outrageous markups (which _could_ permit a more costly but more ethical supply chain) due to which they'd not have to increase prices (and thus making them one of the most able to actually divest like that), their utterly ruthless business practices and their woke and patronising pandering makes them a particularly egregious case, so in my opinion far worse than the likes of amazon, etc. (not discounting bad things they do, just a matter of perspective).
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It becomes really inconvenient when you have outsourced so much of your manufacturing there. Who is going to make your stuff then? (Maybe something we should have thought of before this, but then China took a turn towards more authoritarian under the current CCP chairman.)
China is now itself outsourcing to cheaper countries, because Chinese labor has become expensive. Supply chains become flexible when the incentives are there. I think the Trump tariffs were on the right track, but for the wrong reasons.
It seems unlikely that the US or the EU will want to pay the cost in the short term.
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Apple fans don’t seem to care, as long as they are getting their magic, nothing else matters...
Eh, nobody, including yourself, maybe except the Jainists, are willing to do without the creature comforts of their lifestyle, not just Apple users. Look at all the things you own and use, some of them built in the same Foxconn factory no doubt. We can look the squalor of factory-farmed animals right in the eye while biting into our ham sandwich and say "damn, someone should really do something about that." Or, perha…
I don't think it'll ever come because we've allowed ourselves to create an atmosphere where there's entities doing their utmost to ensure it never happens via the tolerance of behaviour economics and psychology being used in marketing, the tolerance of big corporate lobbyists, the corruption of science via corporate backed "studies" whose results align with the initial desires, etc.
The only consolation being that our unmitigated greed will likely destroy us long before we have the chance to infest the stars with it, and that life will go on without us.
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> Apple's supply chain is more than 1,000 companies. Do you really think Apple has the expertise and personnel to replicate what 1,000 companies have spent decades mastering? Not likely. As one of the richest corporations on the planet which always smugly tells everyone how nice they are and how much they respect people? Yes, fuck yes. They're not a mom and pop shop. They're a corporation that finds millions to lobby…
> As one of the richest corporations on the planet .. Huh, they are richest because they are not swamped with mass manufacturing and all issues that come with it.
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Yeah, but what does it mean? To revoke ownership of the company from its owners? Who then gets to own the company and why? Or does it mean the company should cease to exist, and all employees should be fired immediately? We should deny honest people from getting their salaries?
To declare their shares of having no more legal power than toilet paper.
Why would the price be different from current stock price?
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The previous poster made a very obvious point that work is not voluntary when the alternative is punishment, which your post very helpfully illustrates as “sitting in [a] tiny little cell.” This doesn’t seem like a point that should require so much explanation for thinking people.
You and the previous poster seem to ignore that the punishment is just (to the extent that the criminal justice system is capable of justice). It's not like they're forced to work; and if they take the option, they're still under punishment doled by the justice system. So it's not immoral forced labor as long as neither the work or the jail cell constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment".
By your logic, the Uighurs are experiencing "just" punishment under the laws of the People's Republic of China.
Since the Uighurs have committed "crimes" (as defined by the government under which they live) against the state, they are subject to whatever punishment is prescribed by the law.
This is, of course, ridiculous on its face. And is just as ridiculous anywhere else.
There are valid reasons to separate some folks from the rest of society (think John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, etc.), as they've shown themselves to be unable/unwilling to respect the rights of others within that society.
Incarceration as a tool of punishment, while widely used, often poses more risk of harming society than any benefit from "punishing" offenders.
It's a complex issue, and simplifying it to "Law and order! Lock 'em up!" is reductive and often detrimental to the societies it's supposed to improve.