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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#231

Post by animal_spirits »

beisner wrote: post #204
animal_spirits wrote: post #198

I have yet to see any actual evidence of forced labor in China. Only claims, nothing more. Americans have been fed false propaganda against communist USSR for decades, and I have a gut feeling the same is happening against communist China. Maybe it has to do with China's plan to collapse the US petrodollar global monetary system [0] and the US is trying to rouse a new Red Scare and push us into a second Cold War. EDI…

While there probably is an element of that, hard evidence that might paint the Chinese government negatively in general is much more difficult to obtain because of information and communications controls.

Agreed, I am just wary of journalist referencing other journalists as "evidence". But I have since found some very damning evidence here: https://shahit.biz/eng/ This is very sad to read and understand. I hope this site gets more attention than these articles

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#232

Post by crispyambulance »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #173
mgh2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple fans don’t seem to care, as long as they are getting their magic, nothing else matters...

I'm not an Apple fan, probably more of an Apple hater, but why is Apple the bad guy for seeking cheaper labor? Why is it the consumers problem that China allows it's citizens to be treated like shit? Why is this ethical responsibility somehow always offloaded to the consumer?

> Why is this ethical responsibility somehow always offloaded to the consumer?

Because NO ONE else seems to be up to the task.

I think folks here are getting lost in the weeds about precise definitions which don't really matter that much and what they think are laws that can be applied across national boundaries (generally, that's not feasible).

There has been an effort to ban "conflict minerals" from modern supply chains. It's partially successful (in that you effectively get "a sticker" that you can show-off if your supply chain doesn't use children as miners). It would be nice if, AT LEAST, a similar half-measure could be done for "forced labor" (or whatever you want to call what they're doing to the Uighurs).

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#234

Post by MarkSweep »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #221
LatteLazy wrote: post #12

I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations...

> I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations... I don't think so. Nothing happened with Tibet, or after the Tiananmen Square event AFAIK. 20 years ago, the people that signed all the trade deals with countries such as China claimed it would lead to improving democracy and human righ…

You mean the “People’s Republic of China”, right? The “Republic of China” is more commonly known as “Taiwan”.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#235

Post by Nkuna »

tiahura wrote: post #203
fishtacos wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to make sure no one is confused by this either, there is no "volunteer[ing]" in prison.

I'm guessing you've never been incarcerated? There's all sorts of volunteering: such as fixing the TV or coffee maker, teaching other inmates to read, helping another inmate file a frivolous appeal, and so on. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/07/20/538062911/wh... [What's It Really Like To Work In A Prison Goat Milk Farm? We Asked Inmates] But what do the workers themselves think? I find Jeremiah Pate in the…

> there is no "volunteer[ing]" in prison.

>> "It's a great thing," Pate tells me. "It beats the alternative. Rather than sitting in your tiny little cell, you get to come out here."

>> They were just thinking about their options in prison, and in that perspective, the farm looked pretty good.

You're making the point of OP. When the only other option is "sitting in your tiny little cell", there's not much choice in it. It's less volunteering, and more escaping a psychologically untenable situation.

Given other options, I doubt many inmates would be willing to 'volunteer' or work for peanuts.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#236

Post by LatteLazy »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #221
LatteLazy wrote: post #12

I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations...

> I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations... I don't think so. Nothing happened with Tibet, or after the Tiananmen Square event AFAIK. 20 years ago, the people that signed all the trade deals with countries such as China claimed it would lead to improving democracy and human righ…

Tiananmen was at least met with lasting arms embargo, both from the EU and US...

I think the expectation for many (myself included) was that as living standards rose, the Chinese people would demand democratic reform (rule of law, justice for all, some say in decisions and leadership). China (or rather the ccp) has successfully avoided that so far.

Now its flexing that power and people like me, who expected natural change, are forced to re-evaluate.

mea culpa

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#237

Post by powerapple »

adrr wrote: post #155
LatteLazy wrote: post #12

I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations...

Against the largest consumer/retail market in world? Not going to happen at the country level and risk reciprocal economic restrictions. Only way to get china to change is have people vote with their wallets and refuse to buy Chinese made stuff but at the end of the day people just don't care and just want cheap stuff. If you gave someone a choice between $100 IPhone made by slave child labor and $1000 IPhone that wa…

I will buy the phone made by slave child labour because the only reason they exist is because economy, if they make money, at least their next generation can live a better life. It is not likely that without a factory they will study and go to college like you would think. The alternative to a bad choice may be a worse choice, not a better choice.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#238

Post by La1n »

greggturkington wrote: post #35
daenz wrote: post #9

"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…

"Modern day slavery" is mincing words, slavery in the modern day is just slavery. Typically slavery refers to the slave being considered property, and ownership transferring to offspring. You can compare it to forced labor.

Not all slavery is chattel slavery.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#240

Post by baybal2 »

nlitened wrote: post #191
baybal2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations... Why would world politicians take any actions against China when so many of them do have a finger in the honeypot themselves? Invalidate stock shares* of all companies who made untold billions on China, and you will see that a huge doub…

What would “invalidating stocks” even mean?

Here, invalidate stock shares
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