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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#181

Post by esarbe »

simonh wrote: post #151
esarbe wrote: post #114

I'm so confused by all the downvotes for reasonable critique of either Apple or China, most of it silent without any justification given. Does anyone care to explain it to me?

I can only speculate, but I'll try. I haven't downvoted anyone in this thread BTW because I've been posting comments. When I post comments I prefer for them to stand as my input on the matter. Most of the comments I'm seeing down voted seem to me to be somewhat extreme invective lacking in significant useful or interesting content. The bottom line is HN is about high signal low noise. Most of the downvotes are probab…

Thanks for the response.

> Most of the comments I'm seeing down voted seem to me to be somewhat extreme invective lacking in significant useful or interesting content.

Yeah, that's what's been confusing me. Some of the comments being downvoted I found to be quite precise critiques of the problems and honest attempts to provide information to an interesting discussion.

> So lets all take some deep breaths and look at what's actually going on here.

That sounds like the way to do it.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#182

Post by boudin »

simonh wrote: post #112
fsflover wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of perfection does not mean you should give up everything.

Oh absolutely, they work very hard on this and deserver a lot of credit for it, but then so do Apple. They have some of the strictest policies and most thorough inspections in the industry and this still keeps happening to them.

I don't think it's comparable no. The effort put by Fairphone to build an ethical tech company is not comparable with what apple have been doing. There's a lot of information on their website and it's worth to have a look: https://www.fairphone.com/en/impact

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#183

Post by esarbe »

jiofih wrote: post #62

Note for those skimming the clickbait headlines: this is an accusation found in a report. No evidence brought forward yet.

Since we are talking about a tyrannical dictatorship, I'm willing to forgo "in dubio pro reo" in such cases.

Investigators trying to dig up evidence usually end up in jail.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#184

Post by bdz »

MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #29

I hate how American (and European) companies will virtue signal with commercials and campaigns (Apple and Nike come to mind) toting their ESG credentials but then will be doing stuff like this. People fall for it and it really pisses me off. Welcome to marketing. It’s also crazy to me that China isn’t facing more severe backlash for the treatment of the Uyghurs. It’s reprehensible and disgusting.

>I hate how American (and European) companies will virtue signal with commercials and campaigns (Apple and Nike come to mind) toting their ESG credentials but then will be doing stuff like this

My favorite https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/034/229/Bethe...

Companies don't care though but consumers also have to realize they are not your friends either

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#185

Post by [deleted] »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #170
mgh2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple fans don’t seem to care, as long as they are getting their magic, nothing else matters...

Apple is Foxconn's biggest customer. But why not call out PlayStation and Nintendo and Amazon and??? The fact is - Apple fans aren't unique. Not many people care about this issue, unfortunately.

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#186

Post by fhrow4484 »

christophilus wrote: post #34

I’ve decided to leave the Apple ecosystem in 2021. But the problem is not isolated to Apple. In fact, I’d be surprised if other, cheaper products aren’t quite a bit worse. Is there an electronics company that does a better job? (That’s not a rhetorical question.)

Even if a phone is made 100% in US or Europe, the raw materials for it like Cobalt is probably not immune to other types of human rights abuse: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/dec/16/a...

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/oct/12/p...

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#187

Post by [deleted] »

alisonkisk wrote: post #147
_pp0b wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right in your last paragraph. The situation in Xinjang is such that for an Uyghur it is in fact impossible to decline to do what the state says. Any work done with involvement of Uyghur population by default is a situation of forced labour. That’s what the article says. However, using the term “slavery” gives CCP ammunition to fight back. They can point out that Uyghurs are paid. They can claim they are free…

Any criticism will give CCP ammunition to fight back in bad faith. They can say "US government oppressed its colored people too" which is true. By refusing to criticize them, you are just doing their work for them and giving them a free pass.

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#188

Post by powerapple »

1) Is there a shortage of labour in China? 2) Why do you setup a factory in areas far away from other factory and transport the components far away to Shenzhen assemble and export? 3) Were these workers paid? And were they paid fairly?

I can understand the situation. The Chinese government is trying to improve the economy in Xinjiang and encouraged companies to setup factories there. Ruled by a communist government, these companies had to comply and provide jobs to those areas, which is far from port and industry, whose workers are less trained and educated. China is hoping that by improving the economy, people can forget about independence maybe?

Evil? Kind of. Very practical plan though.

Edit: Distance from Xinjiang to Shenzhen: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi,+Xinjiang,+...

4k+ kms, 6+hr flight

One of the reason south China is more developed to northern China is that the south has most factories, it is close to port.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#189

Post by natecham »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #173
mgh2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple fans don’t seem to care, as long as they are getting their magic, nothing else matters...

I'm not an Apple fan, probably more of an Apple hater, but why is Apple the bad guy for seeking cheaper labor? Why is it the consumers problem that China allows it's citizens to be treated like shit? Why is this ethical responsibility somehow always offloaded to the consumer?

Because as long as it’s legal and the consumer is willing to buy at the rate they have been, Apple/etc. has very little incentive to change

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#190

Post by mgh2 »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #164
mgh2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple fans don’t seem to care, as long as they are getting their magic, nothing else matters...

Eh, nobody, including yourself, maybe except the Jainists, are willing to do without the creature comforts of their lifestyle, not just Apple users. Look at all the things you own and use, some of them built in the same Foxconn factory no doubt. We can look the squalor of factory-farmed animals right in the eye while biting into our ham sandwich and say "damn, someone should really do something about that." Or, perha…

Emphasis on the word "fans". Analogy: I hate Google's business model, but I still have to use their products for lack of better alternatives.

The difference is that I won't go around evangelizing (i.e. marketing) their products as a consumer, pumping up demand if I knew the negative costs associated with it. On the corporate side is Apple's hypocrisy PR- i.e. don't drink their koolaid.

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