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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#131

Post by corty »

esarbe wrote: post #110
orange_joe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that quoting a PR spokesperson is a meaningful response, Apple is obviously a biased party in this investigation. Moreover, Apple has opposed the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act which would penalize companies with forced labor in their supply chains[1]. It also has a history of similar accusations with regards to their LCD screens [2] and their uniforms [3]. All of this is completely ignoring their…

Why the downvotes? These are reasonable arguments.

Truth hurts. Voting on HN does not judge the quality of a text, it often just point out whether people like it for various reasons.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#132

Post by ficklepickle »

MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #61
hdjtkrnrn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is an influencer to do? Switch to Android, like poor people? Nobody who matters is going to boycott Apple. Apple will counter with a plausible narrative, "we didn't know, we cancelled contracts, ..." and everything will be fine again. Oh, and a new woke diversity ad to show how much they care about muslims. And everybody will share and clap and feel good.

Exactly. No one is ditching their iPhone. It’s all about the blue text bubbles. If Americans would just switch to WhatsApp or something else like the rest of the world we could get past the Android stigma.

If that's what people care about, then humanity deserves what is coming to it.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#133

Post by mgh2 »

daenz wrote: post #9

"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…

Apple fans don’t seem to care, as long as they are getting their magic, nothing else matters...

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#134

Post by jonathannat »

koheripbal wrote: post #97
jonathannat wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good news is all macro trends portend to factories leaving faster out of China. And less trade with China. - Unfavorable Views of China Reach Historic Highs in Many Countries in 2020 https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/10/06/unfavorable-vi... . Consciously or subconsciously, consumers will favor goods made not in China - US President-elect Joe Biden affirms his anti-China position. On Monday, he slammed China…

This trend is not what you think it is. The factories are moving to other countries, but still owned by Chinese firms and still using the same, if not more brutal tactics. They are just moving the chips around the board.

Multinational factories are owned by multinationals. Yes, some factories are owned by Chinese firms, but even that's misleading. Alot of the "Chinese" firms have Hong Kong owners, who usually operates more ethically, and hates China, than "CCP state" firms that engages in modern day slavery.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#135

Post by selimthegrim »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #76
LatteLazy wrote: post #12

I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations...

There is genocide going on against Muslims, and the US would typically denounce religious genocide. The current president seems more concerned with watching Fox and pardoning his friends than handling Muslim rights issues.

Pompeo has raised the issue, even if it’s not out of delicacy to Muslims

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#136

Post by sli »

strogonoff wrote: post #123
jordan_curve wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comparison could just as easily be said to belittle what actual forced labor is. I don’t think it’s helpful to compare which atrocity is worse. There are many societies that have had lots of norms or laws protecting slaves from various forms of harm. That’s of course not to say slavery was acceptable in those societies on any level, but many slaves lived more comfortable lives than those who eventually died of m…

Forced labour in prisons is legal in the US right now. Equating forced labour as a whole with slavery, which is frequently used to refer to chattel slavery that existed in the US (HN audience is to large degree US-based) before 1865, may seem inconsiderate to those whose ancestors had to endure the latter. What is reported to be happening to Muslims now in Xinjang, with reeducation camps and all, is not the same as t…

> Forced labour in prisons is legal in the US right now.

The Constitution refers to it directly as slavery. The 13th says "except as punishment for a crime." Folks may want to mince words about it because prisoners are technically paid (pennies per hour), if they are even getting paid in the first place. It was major news that prisoners were sent to fight fires in California for little to no pay. Plus, prisoners are on the hook financially for a lot of their sentence, so that money is basically spent before they even get it.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#137

Post by skinkestek »

__m wrote: post #90
curtis3389 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a zero tolerance in their particular factories, but is China just shuffling workers around to make sure they don't send the slaves to Apple factories? Apple is still making products in Hitler's Germany because the prices are too good to say no. Just because they aren't using the concentration camp labor doesn't mean they aren't complicit in the crimes. They're in the same boat as Fanta from my perspective.…

Don’t trivialize nazi concentration camps by comparing them to some re-education camps. I highly doubt the number of deaths that occurred in these camps is anywhere close to the deaths that Apple‘s home country caused in its own war on terror, including torture and war crimes. With police brutality and the highest incarceration rate in the world, how can a company that values human lives do business in the US?

We shouldn't trivialize nazi atrocities.

However we also shouldn't trivialize Chinese atrocities:

A number of the things that happens there will hopefully get into the history wall of shame as soon as we dare challenge it.

We are however in a rough place right now IMO:

- US is weak and has little (but still significant) moral edge.

- US has a military edge but a full scale conflict will >70% become really messy (think nuclear)

- China has a number of other countries (and influential persons) around the world by the b*lls.

- China has an advantage on manufacturing and logistics

Anyone who wants to fix this

- either needs a brilliant idea and probably lots of luck

- or some serious skills in politics (to get local support for taking correct actions with the necessary firmness)

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#138

Post by jjulius »

mrkstu wrote: post #121
hdjtkrnrn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is an influencer to do? Switch to Android, like poor people? Nobody who matters is going to boycott Apple. Apple will counter with a plausible narrative, "we didn't know, we cancelled contracts, ..." and everything will be fine again. Oh, and a new woke diversity ad to show how much they care about muslims. And everybody will share and clap and feel good.

So, switch to an actual Chinese phone then? About the only 'safe' phone would be a Samsung phone, but the likelihood that some parts are still sourced from un-vetted Chinese parts supplier is high. Apple is far from perfect, but they do more than 99% of manufacturers. Even the most 'woke' fashion brands are now having to deal with the fact that much of their cotton is coming from Uyghur forced labor. I applaud this k…

>Apple is far from perfect, but they do more than 99% of manufacturers.

Source?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#139

Post by corty »

simonh wrote: post #100
delecti wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairphone is your best bet with smartphones, but I'm not sure if there's similarly ethically produced hardware of other types.

Fairphone have dozens of suppliers in China, some of them indirect, and they say in their own literature they can't directly vouch for every company in their supply chain. They're in exactly the same boat as Apple. IMHO this is about China, not any one company.

Fairphone is also about being fair to its user, e.g. with available spare parts.
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