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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#121

Post by mrkstu »

hdjtkrnrn wrote: post #48
daenz wrote: post #9

"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…

What is an influencer to do? Switch to Android, like poor people? Nobody who matters is going to boycott Apple. Apple will counter with a plausible narrative, "we didn't know, we cancelled contracts, ..." and everything will be fine again. Oh, and a new woke diversity ad to show how much they care about muslims. And everybody will share and clap and feel good.

So, switch to an actual Chinese phone then?

About the only 'safe' phone would be a Samsung phone, but the likelihood that some parts are still sourced from un-vetted Chinese parts supplier is high.

Apple is far from perfect, but they do more than 99% of manufacturers. Even the most 'woke' fashion brands are now having to deal with the fact that much of their cotton is coming from Uyghur forced labor.

I applaud this kind of reporting, to expose the practices of the Nazi-like Chinese/Industrial exploitation machine, but I'm leery of the tendency to apply 'Apple' to every such article, like Greenpeace was doing for a long while to drum up publicity.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#122

Post by mrweasel »

duxup wrote: post #56

I fault companies like Apple for doing business with companies who do these things. But I'm not sure if anything changes if local governments aren't interested in stopping it (or actually support it) either. Markets don't care about human rights... and if the local government supports this (in this case China, but other places too). I don't see how this ever changes.

What I don’t understand is why companies want to be associated with these suppliers. Honestly the cost difference can’t be that big.

Also why isn’t it news? It feels like something that should have journalists camping outside Tim Cooks office.

While I question his motives, it’s kinda weird that Trump of all people seems to be the only one who is openly critical of China.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#123

Post by strogonoff »

jordan_curve wrote: post #63
_pp0b wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equating slavery with forced labour belittles the gravity and awfulness of what actual slavery is (or was). Forced labour takes different forms, which includes forced paid work and by some definitions penal work. Slavery is when a person is treated as a property of another person. Being a slave may or may not involve forced labour. In addition, calling Uyghur work “slavery” in fact undermines the cause, allowing CCP…

That comparison could just as easily be said to belittle what actual forced labor is. I don’t think it’s helpful to compare which atrocity is worse. There are many societies that have had lots of norms or laws protecting slaves from various forms of harm. That’s of course not to say slavery was acceptable in those societies on any level, but many slaves lived more comfortable lives than those who eventually died of m…

Forced labour in prisons is legal in the US right now. Equating forced labour as a whole with slavery, which is frequently used to refer to chattel slavery that existed in the US (HN audience is to large degree US-based) before 1865, may seem inconsiderate to those whose ancestors had to endure the latter.

What is reported to be happening to Muslims now in Xinjang, with reeducation camps and all, is not the same as treating a human as another piece of personal property. It is both not as bad, and yet at the same time somehow even worse, as this time a whole culture is being systematically eliminated.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#124

Post by herbst »

christophilus wrote: post #34

I’ve decided to leave the Apple ecosystem in 2021. But the problem is not isolated to Apple. In fact, I’d be surprised if other, cheaper products aren’t quite a bit worse. Is there an electronics company that does a better job? (That’s not a rhetorical question.)

Honestly i never felt the ecosystem to be that great, its just the same shit others are doing in a walled garden way. I am sure you will be fine finding your own stack

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#125

Post by corty »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #78
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. No one is ditching their iPhone. It’s all about the blue text bubbles. If Americans would just switch to WhatsApp or something else like the rest of the world we could get past the Android stigma.

Is the labor used to make an iPhone and different than any other phone? Or any other electronics for that matter? As far as I know, unless you stop consuming electronics completely, you’re not avoiding the labor abuses mining the necessary metals in Central Africa or the labor to manufacture it in Asia.

There is e.g. Fairphone

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#126

Post by bitcharmer »

esarbe wrote: post #89
yellow_lead wrote: post #2

Database of many missing or detained Uyghurs is available here: https://shahit.biz/eng/ It's very upsetting to see companies such as Apple, H&M, etc using forced labor.

Why the downvotes?

I've seen this more and more lately. Sometimes I feel here like I'm on reddit.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#127

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

hobs wrote: post #77
simonh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like it may well be going that way, sure, but making this about Apple is headline bait. It's about China. The fact is you can't buy a single thing made in China and be sure it isn't implicated in this in some way. Think of the last few things you bought that were manufactured or sourced some parts in China. Can you honestly say the manufacturer audits their supply chain with the same rigour? At least Apple i…

So we shouldnt shame the richest company on earth for using slave labor because its about "china"? If anyone has leverage, its Apple, so actually yes its a way to start fixing the problem. There's a simple way to keep slave labor out of your supply chain, stop doing business with people who are fine with that, not "performing audits to find out they are using slave labor again so we switched!"

Not to defend Apple specifically - but do you really think it's just Apple?

Maximising downward pressure on wages - as an economist might label this - is the natural, predictable, desired outcome of globalisation.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#128

Post by duxup »

mrweasel wrote: post #122
duxup wrote: post #56

I fault companies like Apple for doing business with companies who do these things. But I'm not sure if anything changes if local governments aren't interested in stopping it (or actually support it) either. Markets don't care about human rights... and if the local government supports this (in this case China, but other places too). I don't see how this ever changes.

What I don’t understand is why companies want to be associated with these suppliers. Honestly the cost difference can’t be that big. Also why isn’t it news? It feels like something that should have journalists camping outside Tim Cooks office. While I question his motives, it’s kinda weird that Trump of all people seems to be the only one who is openly critical of China.

If it were in the US you'd certainly see it in the news.

In China and other places just getting close to a factory can at times be difficult and crappy working conditions are sadly just assumed to be a fact :(

Trump's criticism of China I don't think intersects anywhere close to caring about the treatment of Chinese citizens... or anyone really.

Just a random anecdote, I'm American and work in the US. Trump personally approved the acquisition of a company I worked for and appeared with the CEO and talked about how all the great jobs that would come of it ... before the acquisition was official they laid most everyone off.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#129

Post by yorwba »

The crazy thing to me is Apple's defense that they have instructed their suppliers not to hire any Uighurs from Xinjiang, i.e. openly engaging in ethnic discrimination of job candidates.

I guess they looked at the cost of improving the working conditions in their factories and decided that it was cheaper to simply not use any workers whose fate people might care about. I'm sure the government was happy to assist them in procuring some Han Chinese workers instead...

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#130

Post by herbst »

philliphaydon wrote: post #113
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. No one is ditching their iPhone. It’s all about the blue text bubbles. If Americans would just switch to WhatsApp or something else like the rest of the world we could get past the Android stigma.

WhatsApp is terrible and insecure. Facebook already knows too much about me.

So why not Signal? Telegram? Slack? Discord if thats your thing. Or even Email?

I mean we do have plenty of choice, many actually caring about security and their users.

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