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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#61

Post by MaxHoppersGhost »

hdjtkrnrn wrote: post #48
daenz wrote: post #9

"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…

What is an influencer to do? Switch to Android, like poor people? Nobody who matters is going to boycott Apple. Apple will counter with a plausible narrative, "we didn't know, we cancelled contracts, ..." and everything will be fine again. Oh, and a new woke diversity ad to show how much they care about muslims. And everybody will share and clap and feel good.

Exactly. No one is ditching their iPhone. It’s all about the blue text bubbles. If Americans would just switch to WhatsApp or something else like the rest of the world we could get past the Android stigma.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#63

Post by jordan_curve »

_pp0b wrote: post #41
daenz wrote: post #9

"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…

Equating slavery with forced labour belittles the gravity and awfulness of what actual slavery is (or was). Forced labour takes different forms, which includes forced paid work and by some definitions penal work. Slavery is when a person is treated as a property of another person. Being a slave may or may not involve forced labour. In addition, calling Uyghur work “slavery” in fact undermines the cause, allowing CCP…

That comparison could just as easily be said to belittle what actual forced labor is.

I don’t think it’s helpful to compare which atrocity is worse.

There are many societies that have had lots of norms or laws protecting slaves from various forms of harm. That’s of course not to say slavery was acceptable in those societies on any level, but many slaves lived more comfortable lives than those who eventually died of malnutrition at Auchwitz-II.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#64

Post by _pp0b »

api wrote: post #51
_pp0b wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equating slavery with forced labour belittles the gravity and awfulness of what actual slavery is (or was). Forced labour takes different forms, which includes forced paid work and by some definitions penal work. Slavery is when a person is treated as a property of another person. Being a slave may or may not involve forced labour. In addition, calling Uyghur work “slavery” in fact undermines the cause, allowing CCP…

A person held against their will and forced to do labor is a slave whether they're called that or not, especially if they have committed no legitimate offense for which such a punishment could be justified. As near as I can tell the Uighurs' "offense" is being of a different ethnicity and being majority Muslim. What the Chinese are doing here is very close to what the USA did in its first century with African slaves.

You are right in your last paragraph. The situation in Xinjang is such that for an Uyghur it is in fact impossible to decline to do what the state says. Any work done with involvement of Uyghur population by default is a situation of forced labour. That’s what the article says.

However, using the term “slavery” gives CCP ammunition to fight back. They can point out that Uyghurs are paid. They can claim they are free to refuse (we know they will not out of fear of retribution, but I suspect the need for such nuance only hurts the case).

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#65

Post by flatline »

greggturkington wrote: post #35
daenz wrote: post #9

"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…

"Modern day slavery" is mincing words, slavery in the modern day is just slavery. Typically slavery refers to the slave being considered property, and ownership transferring to offspring. You can compare it to forced labor.

I agree, though chattel slavery typically implies the slavery of offspring. You can still have institutionalized slavery without that, like the Romans and a lot of other cultures throughout history. Slaves could be set free, could have semi-decent standards of living, while still being dehumanized. Or they could be treated brutally and enslaved for generations. The term seems to fit here in the broadest sense of the word.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#66

Post by baybal2 »

_pp0b wrote: post #41
daenz wrote: post #9

"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…

Equating slavery with forced labour belittles the gravity and awfulness of what actual slavery is (or was). Forced labour takes different forms, which includes forced paid work and by some definitions penal work. Slavery is when a person is treated as a property of another person. Being a slave may or may not involve forced labour. In addition, calling Uyghur work “slavery” in fact undermines the cause, allowing CCP…

> Equating slavery with forced labour belittles the gravity and awfulness of what actual slavery is (or was).

It makes no difference, both are the same in being the most exemplary form of class warfare, and are equally terrible.

Trying to draw a line in between them is a very petty attempt to claim that one is somehow less worse, or even somehow more legitimate than other.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#67

Post by esarbe »

hdjtkrnrn wrote: post #48
daenz wrote: post #9

"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…

What is an influencer to do? Switch to Android, like poor people? Nobody who matters is going to boycott Apple. Apple will counter with a plausible narrative, "we didn't know, we cancelled contracts, ..." and everything will be fine again. Oh, and a new woke diversity ad to show how much they care about muslims. And everybody will share and clap and feel good.

Why the downvotes? Too close to the truth?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#68

Post by esarbe »

curtis3389 wrote: post #38
kortilla wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple spokesman Josh Rosenstock said the company has confirmed that Lens Technology has not received any labor transfers of Uighur workers from Xinjiang. He said Apple earlier this year ensured that none of its other suppliers are using Uighur labor transferred from Xinjiang. >“Apple has zero tolerance for forced labor,” Rosenstock said. “Looking for the presence of forced labor is part of every supplier assessment…

They have a zero tolerance in their particular factories, but is China just shuffling workers around to make sure they don't send the slaves to Apple factories? Apple is still making products in Hitler's Germany because the prices are too good to say no. Just because they aren't using the concentration camp labor doesn't mean they aren't complicit in the crimes. They're in the same boat as Fanta from my perspective.…

Yes.

I don't get the downvotes here. Has anyone missed news about the concentration camps build for Uigurs[0]?

[0] https://freebeacon.com/national-security/satellite-images-re...

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#69

Post by MaxHoppersGhost »

Jommi wrote: post #58
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #29

I hate how American (and European) companies will virtue signal with commercials and campaigns (Apple and Nike come to mind) toting their ESG credentials but then will be doing stuff like this. People fall for it and it really pisses me off. Welcome to marketing. It’s also crazy to me that China isn’t facing more severe backlash for the treatment of the Uyghurs. It’s reprehensible and disgusting.

What other way would you suggest companies could link shareholder incentives and ethics? Hitting ESG metrics / recieving ESG credentials is a way for companies to benefit from doing the right thing.

I am a proponent of ESG but (to me at least) it doesn’t appear there is a standardized method of calculation for metrics and things like forced labor (Nike, Apple) or pandering to a govt by censoring (NBA, Google) aren’t being captured. I could be off as I haven’t studied it that much. Everyone can agree what GAAP net income is but calculating ESG metrics is much more subjective.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#70

Post by judge2020 »

samfisher83 wrote: post #21

Apple will just claim its suppliers fault. That is why companies outsource everything. That way there is plausible deniability.

It's the issue with using China manufacturing at all, although, even if Apple moved production to the US, chances are they'd still be facing forced labor allegations since they'd still need to get shipments from China for parts that can't be made in the US.
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