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Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

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Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

#71
post #54
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't it? In the end this is a people problem, not a tech problem. And both Silicon Valley and Bangladesh have some form of "local" meritocracy. Meritocracy applied and working within your stratum but not across the boundaries. Whether you're poor or in a lower caste you still get some form of meritocracy within your group to keep you content and motivated. But crossing the boundary to the next level, while no…

The paper identifies one threshold at ~500 USD. That is, in Bangladesh, those with more than 500 USD assets tend to accumulate more assets, while those with less than 500 USD assets don't. As people in Silicon Valley have more than 500 USD assets (citation needed), I don't see how this paper applies to Silicon Valley at all. There can be another such threshold, but the paper doesn't provide any experimental support f…

That's a bit pedantic, the principle is exactly the same showing humans operate on the same principles regardless of geography. OP clearly discussed "the idea of meritocracy", not "the exact threshold" and the study just pinpointed a threshold while confirming the universality of the mechanism.

Whether it's $500 in Bangladesh where Google tells me the "typical" salary is ~$150-$300, or $500k in SV where the typical pay might be $150k-$300k the principle is still very much the same.

Everyone claims meritocracy but in the end it's proven it's not individual merit we're actually looking for. We're looking to maintain barriers around our layer of society and allow some form of real meritocracy only within a layer.

Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

#72
In the US: "graduate from high school; get a full-time job; don’t have a child before age 21 and get married before childbearing", this gives you %75 chance of being middle class, about %89 chance of not being poor. This isn't good enough, but seems possible!

https://www.vox.com/2015/7/24/9027195/haskins-sawhill-norms-...

Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

#73
post #33
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unequal distribution of rewards (i.e. according to merit) is fine and desirable (as a motivating force). The problem's roots are when the distribution of rewards becomes hereditary , that the children of the wealthy have near-guaranteed access to the best educational and social institutions, have near-guaranteed access to startup capital (i.e. from their parents), are usually provided with necessities (food, housing,…

Do you have any sources on what percentage of wealthy that inherit their wealth? From what I've gathered it's quite small and doesn't necessarily last more than a few generations.

I don't have an answer off the top of my head, but I did some searching for you.

A short article from inequality.org [1] suggests that most of the richest people in the world (Forbes 400) were born with significant financial advantages, if they weren't already wealthy.

Since there are many more rich people than the Forbes 400, that doesn't seem too representative of the usual rich person. It's hard to find anything conclusive - there are a few research memos put out by what seem to be wealth management firms claiming that most rich people are actually self-made. There's a clear conflict of interest here, so I'm not sure we can trust those results.

It seems understudied, and will take a lot more than 10 minutes of searching for relevant results.

1. https://inequality.org/research/selfmade-myth-hallucinating-...

Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically the only reason I accumulate any resources or am productive at all is for the benefit of my child. I wouldn't think twice about committing violence against anyone who tried to stop me.

With the words you’ve used, you sound threatening and extreme. What do you mean by someone trying to stop you “accumulating resources” for your child?

You understood it correctly.

Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

#75
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting strawman. There are a lot of other ways to control inheritance than separating children from their parents.

Name one way that does not involve theft of property.

Before we start naming ways, are you somebody who thinks taxation is theft?

Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

#77
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unequal distribution of rewards (i.e. according to merit) is fine and desirable (as a motivating force). The problem's roots are when the distribution of rewards becomes hereditary , that the children of the wealthy have near-guaranteed access to the best educational and social institutions, have near-guaranteed access to startup capital (i.e. from their parents), are usually provided with necessities (food, housing,…

Practically the only reason I accumulate any resources or am productive at all is for the benefit of my child. I wouldn't think twice about committing violence against anyone who tried to stop me.

That's kind of funny because communist revolutions start more or less from the same feeling: we work long hours and have nothing and there is not hope for my children.

Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

#78
post #2

These conclusions seem to spit in the face of "meritocracy". It's always puzzled me that this idea of meritocracy, especially in tech (notably USA), is so pervasive, bleeding into our corporate performance reviews and our pro-diversity efforts ("we hire only according to merit" ). But it is so internally irrational. I'm reminded of this argument: > The case against meritocracy can be put psychologically: (a) The abol…

Why is absolute equality a more desirable state than the merit-based system now in place?

Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there were great policies established under the new deal. I would caution advocating for blanket rescuing of the economy from market failures, though. The recent stimulus provided by the US congress to the airline industry is a perfect example of executives taking advantage of taxpayers. I would also push back against the idea that the last 50 years have been destructive economically.

An example of a market failure is climate change, or at least many market failures are contained within this problem. Are you suggesting the government take a hands off approach to that? At the end of the day the government is necessary to the functioning of capitalism, we need to help people out of poverty so that among other things the economy can actually improve. That's all I'm arguing for, and I think there is u…

I completely agree with you on your point about climate change. I’m also not arguing for completely unregulated capitalism. I just think we need to be both smarter and more realistic about policy making. The 1% and corporations play both sides of the equation. At the same time, pulling down those who have been somewhat successful does nothing to fix poverty.

Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]

#80

> We find that in the absence of credit constraints only 2% of households would be best off doing wage labor, while 97% of households are exclusively reliant such work at baseline. Conversely, only 1% work in livestock when 90% would do so if they had access to the same asset wealth as the middle and upper classes. Overall, this implies that 96% of households are forced to misallocate their labor. So the authors sugg…

This study primarily focused on rural poor in Bangladesh.

Trying to project the conclusions on to relatively wealthy (on a global scale) societies like the United States isn’t going to make much sense.

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