Live data from Hacker News

Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

petapixel.com

291–300 of 335 posts

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#291
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 15 km/h The tape stores 580TB for a length of 1255m, does that mean the read speed is 580TB/1255m*15km/h = 1.9TB/s ? Seems too high.

Tapes are often structured in bands, and those bands are divided into wraps, and those wraps are divided into tracks. There are many tracks on a tape, and they snake back and forth from end to end on the wrap (so you don't need to "rewind" when you get to the end of the tape—you just start reading back in the other direction). In newer tape drives, you physically can't read all of the data at once because the tape he…

Since I had to look up more info to understand this explanation, I'll try to give my own, using the numbers for LTO-8.

The drive has 32 heads, and reads/writes 32 tracks at a time. It goes from the start of the tape to the end, then aligns with the next 32 tracks and reverses direction.

Each group of 32 tracks is called a wrap. There are 208 wraps, so 6656 total data tracks. Even wraps go one direction, and odd wraps go the other direction.

That's the important part.

But also the tape is divided into 4 "bands", each one holding a quarter of the wraps/tracks. Between the bands, and at the edges of the tape, are special servo tracks that are used for alignment.

So when a source talks about "wraps per band", it's pointless abstraction. Unless you're really in the weeds, the only thing you want to know is the total number of wraps.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was working in vfx we employed a guy who's sole job was to fly back and forth from LA to Melbourne with pelican cases full of hard drives. It was faster and more secure since we were working on air gapped networks.

I wonder if tapes are more prone to some form of driveby attack, whereby instead of requiring physical or remote access to a location, a strong enough magnetic field within a certain distance of a datacentre could penetrate bricks and mortar and render them useless I'm envisioning a huge device in the back of a van which pulses a powerful beam, similar to typical movies (Oceans 11?) cutting the power to a bank / casi…

Are you familiar with the story of the force field generated at the 3M plant apparently in 1980?

It would probably take more power than that to do what is being suggested from the distances that are being suggested.

I'm not sure it's feasible.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#293
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most recent tape standards have multiple "bands" and "wraps" placed in parallel. The head reads only one wrap at a time, so it takes many passes to read the whole tape. For example an LTO-8 tape has 52 wraps each within 4 bands, requiring 208 passes to read completely.

Why not just have multiple heads then?

There are. The tradeoff of speed vs. complexity is currently sitting at 32 heads.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#294
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask HN: How can I create the most reliable and durable NAS today? I have a lot of very sentimental, very-important files, such as family photos and videos. And I simply like to hoard data. I currently have 8TB of data stored on a Synology DS218+ with RAID1, and monthly data scrubs (verifying checksums). It is backed up remotely to Google Drive (in encrypted form), and I also maintain an infrequently-updated, once-per…

You’ll know ECC works when it matters; When you encounter a flipped bit. With an 8TB RAID, that is likely to be within the next 24 months. Go with option 1, and Raid-Z2+. With RaidZ2, you’ll be able to not only detect but correct a flipped bit - Even if that flip happens when writing out the data. Pay attention to the counters. Your ZFS scrubs will report how many resilvers they have. You’re likely to encounter 1 in…

But what if a bit flips in a header or in the OS's file length field?

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#295
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just built my Truenas box using Ryzen. Let me know if you want a part list for inspiration or any tips.

I would love your part list! Did you go with ECC memory? Did you have any way of verifying the ECC is working and actually detecting/correcting bitflips? The other thing I am interested in is minimizing idle power consumption. Just to be more environmentally friendly.

I don't know if you want to build the same kind of system but at least you can get a list of parts that work together.

I use my Truenas box for storage using ZFS, VMs and NFS server for different PCs.

I bought ECC memory as I understand this is more or less a requirement for ZFS.

I found out that FreeBSD which Truenas is based on can give you info about what type of RAM is present.

The command is: # dmidecode -t memory

According to this I have ECC RAM. :)

I did a build with the following parts:

Case: SST-CS380 V2 (space for 8 3.5" drives, 2 x ). Mainboard: ASRock X470D4U2-2T Power supply: Seasonic Focus Plus 550W Gold 80 Plus Full Modular Power Supply RAM: Kingston Server Premier, DDR4, 16 GB, KSM26ED8/5 M CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X Wraith Spire CPU Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II NVMe to PCI bridge: ASUS Hyper M.2 x16 Gen 4 (PCIe 4.0/3.0) supports 4X NVMe M.2 devices (2242/2260/2280/22110) up to 256 Gbps for AMD TRX40 / X570 PCIe 4.0 NVMe RAID and Intel® RAID platform - CPU features

I bought all this from Amazon.de. The main board is a server main board with 10 GE Ethernet and a console for flashing bios and remoting into the machine - no graphics card needed. This was expensive and you can most likely save a lot using a consumer grade main board.

The RAM was taken from the list provided at https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X...

The CPU models supported are here: https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X...

Be careful not to buy an AMD APU - this doesn't support ECC RAM for some insane reason. An APU would have build in graphics and the CPU.

I use both SATA drives (long term storage) and SDD drives (for speed).

I created two ZFS volumes (I don't remember the proper terms). One for rotating discs (which could sleep most of the time) and one using SDDs for fast storage which doesn't use much power.

I have 6 KW solar cells with battery so I don't really care if the box uses a lot of power. During daylight its more or less free when sun is shining. I get next to nothing when selling the electricity that I generate and would like to use as much as possible locally.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#296
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> M-DISC didn't hold up Since I have a lot of stuff on M-DISC, you’ve now got me worried. Link? Any other info? I don’t need 1000 years but what is the lifespan?

Here it is, it basically performed as the same as archival grade DVDs: https://www.lne.fr/sites/default/files/inline-files/syylex-g...

Yep, but the reality is that "we don't know", an accelerated, simulated aging test may (or may not) have the same results as "real" aging.

250 hours @ 90 C°/85% humidity, how does that compare to - say - 100,000 hours at a "normal" 10-40 C°/30-50% humidity?

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#297
post #99

Aw, c'mon chaps! Can we just admire the tech for a second? > Data on the tape is stored at a record-breaking density of 317 gigabytes per square inch... > When tape is being read it is streamed over the head at a speed of about 15 km/h and with our new servo technologies we are still able to position the tape head with an accuracy that is about 1.5 times the width of a DNA molecule.

317 gb per square inch

That seem perfectly reasonable. You can get 256 USB flash in in size about half square inch, and that is random access data. (e.g: https://www.walmart.com/ip/SAMSUNG-256GB-Bar-Plus-Titan-Gray... )

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person of 6’0” I found the flight from LAX to SYD, and return, miserable in coach. I slept a lot and watched some movies but any way you cut it that is a long time to be sitting in a very uncomfortable seat.

In the before times I flew Auckland to Doha over 20ish hours. I can’t believe anyone likes flying, every bit of it is awful. I’m 1.97m or so and it’s really not designed for me. I suspect it’s optimised for those at 1.6-1.7m.

1.75m here and coach sucks for me too. For that reason and social distancing I just bought a car that can drive me to places I’d usually fly, in much more comfort.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data storage is already so cheap thanks to HDDs that a poor African country can afford to spy on its population. This will hardly change anything. If we want to do something about it we have to revolt in the streets.

The tape may well be the better scenario. With a pile of random access devices, the time and cost of a single record retrieve is low, though the cost of bulk records can get high. All the oppressors need is a half decade window, maybe a decade to be pretty much golden, as far as totalitarianism goes. The tape will definitely hold the data, and then some apparently. But access costs go up. The drives seem to encourage…

In a world where we hold people accountable for stupid things they did or said when they were teenagers, I can see a lot of blackmail value in retaining data for a much longer period of time.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#300
post #99

Aw, c'mon chaps! Can we just admire the tech for a second? > Data on the tape is stored at a record-breaking density of 317 gigabytes per square inch... > When tape is being read it is streamed over the head at a speed of about 15 km/h and with our new servo technologies we are still able to position the tape head with an accuracy that is about 1.5 times the width of a DNA molecule.

> Data on the tape is stored at a record-breaking density of 317 gigabytes per square inch...

The table from IBM[1] in the middle of the page says this number is in gigabits (not gigabytes) per square inch. This is obviously impressive nonetheless, but I wonder what else this article got wrong.

[1] https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/12/ibmtale.jpg

Post reply on HN