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Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

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Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#31

Post by stcredzero »

run4yourlives wrote: post #25

While this is no doubt going to be unpopular here on HackerNews, I'm going to posit the following: This is almost as bad as have 8 of 9 people being Creationists. Better than 90% of a council making decisions for the whole country being of the same persuasion is prone to severe group think. Scientists (or rather, engineers, if you RTFA) aren't immune to this any more than any of us are. If you look at the best run bu…

While this is no doubt going to be unpopular here on HackerNews, I'm going to posit the following: This is almost as bad as have 8 of 9 people being Creationists.

...

One child policies that have resulted in a generation of males without females is pretty much exactly the type of policy I'd expect from a group of engineers.

Let us hope that they will do a better job with global politics and economics than they did with domestic policy.

Has there ever been a culture/major world power besotted with its own engineering prowess? Or is this just a way to describe western civilization in the 19th and 20th centuries? (In particular, Britain, United States, the USSR, and Germany.)

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#32

Post by lionhearted »

kentrado wrote: post #30
lionhearted wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I think I get where you're coming from because I felt the same way until I (1) opened up a business, and (2) spent significant time outside the USA. Honestly, the business/commerce in the USA is one of the best things about it. As for Chomsky - well, he's completely discredited to me after comparing his writings about Southeast Asia to spending significant amounts of time in SE Asia. Also the ex-Communist c…

>As for Chomsky - well, he's completely discredited to me after comparing his writings about Southeast Asia to spending significant amounts of time in SE Asia. Also the ex-Communist countries. He's a relic from a dead age. Ad Hominem circumstantial. >Guaranteed perspective-changer. If I was a BP CEO I would have a different perspective on the oil spill, and If I was a Goldman&Sachs CEO I would have a different perspe…

> Ad Hominem circumstantial.

Hey, welcome to Hacker News. This is your second comment, your first was, "Meanwhile, red necks scream in anger, teir took uor jobs!!"

So, let me clue you in to the vibe here. First, we aim for a really high level of civility here. Second, standard throwing out of cliche is frowned upon - yeah, we get it. Nobody liked the bailouts and the BP oil spill was bad.

But most importantly - here, we try to engage in thoughtful discussion instead of just throwing out words like "ad hominem" when an argument isn't ad hominem. I wrote a fairly long comment that Chomsky's writings about what the world was like were wrong, with specific examples of comparable Communist/non-Communist countries. And I outlined that I had a personal background in the matter.

Anyways, my above comment said -

1. Chomsky advocated strongly for many communist regimes and against the USA plenty of times.

2. I believe that was a mistake, as evidenced by comparisons between Communism/non-Communism. Also, clearly, his predictions on South Vietnam and Cambodia were mistaken.

Anyways, welcome to Hacker News. Please try to up the discussion level a little bit, this isn't like the rest of the internet.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#34

Post by Apocryphon »

orenmazor wrote: post #13

well that's just great. how many layers do you have to unpeel from our government before you find anybody that isn't a lawyer.

Different national political cultures, apparently.

http://www.economist.com/node/13496638?story_id=13496638

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#35

Post by stcredzero »

Unseelie wrote: post #27
potatolicious wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but the trend in the US is towards more repression, while the trend in China is towards less . We are destroying our middle class, they are creating and growing theirs at an incredible rate. The attitude that I get from a lot of Chinese is that they feel the present government is a necessary evil - i.e., in exchange for many political and religious freedoms, they get progress, and an immense improvement…

The Chineese exchange students, that is, the ones who are not nationalized in America, the off the boat people, at my school think rather differently. They consider the government of China, for the most part, simply the nature of china. It isn't a necessary evil, its just the way things are.

They consider the government of China, for the most part, simply the nature of china. It isn't a necessary evil, its just the way things are.

This is exactly what is meant by the Chinese "Civilization State."

http://today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/u-s-needs-to-deepen-its-unde...

I've had Chinese coworkers openly feel sorry for me because I have asian features and I don't know how to read/write Chinese characters, and I'm not even Chinese!

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#36

Post by calpaterson »

Bear in mind that a strong part of this is the fact that these guys are trying to use economic planning. In between all these Americans complaining (fairly) about their country's legal power culture, this is an important distinction. Most Western governments aren't economic planners, so technocracy is less interesting/appealing.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#37

Post by run4yourlives »

kentrado wrote: post #30
lionhearted wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I think I get where you're coming from because I felt the same way until I (1) opened up a business, and (2) spent significant time outside the USA. Honestly, the business/commerce in the USA is one of the best things about it. As for Chomsky - well, he's completely discredited to me after comparing his writings about Southeast Asia to spending significant amounts of time in SE Asia. Also the ex-Communist c…

>As for Chomsky - well, he's completely discredited to me after comparing his writings about Southeast Asia to spending significant amounts of time in SE Asia. Also the ex-Communist countries. He's a relic from a dead age. Ad Hominem circumstantial. >Guaranteed perspective-changer. If I was a BP CEO I would have a different perspective on the oil spill, and If I was a Goldman&Sachs CEO I would have a different perspe…

It's hardly ad hominem when the guy makes a four paragraph argument explaining why he thinks Chomsky is wrong. Feel free to argue the point, if you want.

Your second point is just mush.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#38

Post by westiseast »

There's an emphasis on science, but it's not an Enlightenment style love of the scientific method that drives this phenomenon.

Why not come at it from a different angle - what good would it be to be a philosopher in China? How far would you get? Or what about lawyers, in a country that has a pretty unhealthy disregard for legal process?

No, the reason scientists and engineers form that majority is because it's how you get ahead in Chinese society. China doesn't want (or tolerate) artistic and liberal sensitivities - it wants economic development and industry.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#39

Post by maxklein »

run4yourlives wrote: post #25

While this is no doubt going to be unpopular here on HackerNews, I'm going to posit the following: This is almost as bad as have 8 of 9 people being Creationists. Better than 90% of a council making decisions for the whole country being of the same persuasion is prone to severe group think. Scientists (or rather, engineers, if you RTFA) aren't immune to this any more than any of us are. If you look at the best run bu…

The one child policy was not created by this cadre of leadership. The male/female imbalance also happens in India, which does not have such a policy.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#40

Post by stcredzero »

lionhearted wrote: post #18
pyre wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's maybe a trade-off? Sure we have bozos for politicians in the US, but in the US government corruption usually doesn't lead to people 'disappearing.' Though we're definitely making great strides in that direction.

The United States still has, overall, a much better set of governance, courts, regulation, etc. than China. But the USA is trending gradually downwards and China is trending quickly upwards. Now it's interesting, countries can catch up a lot faster than they can lead. If a country is a bit backwards, with the right set of leadership, they can very quickly modernize, becoming extremely important economically and geopo…

If a country is a bit backwards, with the right set of leadership, they can very quickly modernize, becoming extremely important economically and geopolitically in ~30 years when starting almost from scratch.

It's not only leadership. If there is a long track record of commerce and admiration of scholarship, a culture can enable rapid modernization. I think this is why Japan, Korea, and China have done very well for themselves.

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