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Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

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Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home users had tape backups since the 80’s. The problem was, nobody actually backs up so not enough people bought tapes/drives so they quit making them.

Shucks - It was too early for its time. Did they even have RAM in MB's during the 80's? :)

Just barely. It was possible to buy a PC with 2 or 4MB of RAM in the late 1980s, but you couldn't do much with it. On Windows/DOS, I think applications had to be written specifically with "extended memory" or "expanded memory" in mind. There were 2 incompatible "standards" for how to organize memory beyond 1MB.

On the Mac side, in 1989 you could apparently buy a Mac IIci for $6200 with 1MB or 4MB, "expandable to 128MB".

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#122

Mercifully, there was no requisite simpleton analogy like "that is the equivalent of stacking VHS tapes to the moon" or some idiotic thing like that.

>To put 580 terabytes in perspective, it’s roughly the equivalent of 120,000 DVDs or 786,977 CDs — IBM notes that stacking that many CDs would result in a tower 3,097 feet (944m) tall, or taller than Burj Kalifa, the world’s tallest building.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hard drives have a bad habit of not turning on after being off for a year or two is why. So push the "ZFS Scrub" button every 6 months. Don't store hard drives. Store a NAS. The entire freaking computer is stored as a unit. Every few months, turn it on, push "ZFS Scrub" to double-check the data, and you're set. BluRays also degenerate over time unless stored in proper UV-sealed conditions / temperature controlled c…

That violates the 3-2-1 backup rule. 3 copies, 2 different media, 1 offsite. I've seen large orgs do what you're saying and lose nearly everything because one bug took them out completely.

> That violates the 3-2-1 backup rule.

Ehh? Not really. All of these things we're talking about are components of our backup strategy.

If I wanted an offsite backup, its just rsync to some cloud provider (like rsync.net) or something. I don't do that because I don't think my data is worth the recurring cost of that, but its an option.

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My point is that when my solution is 200MB/s and on the order of $500 to $1000 for the component ($500 if you build your own NAS, $1000 if you buy premade parts. Assuming 2x 5TB hard drive is just $300 for 5TBs of _mirrored_ storage)...

While your proposed component costs $30 per 0.1TB and read/writes at a lousy 70MB/s... to get the equivalent mirrored setup you need to buy 100 Blu-Rays or roughly $3000 in Blu Ray XLs alone (2 copies of your data across 2-different Blu Rays, for the same redundancy factor as the 2x Hard Drive solution).

So I have to raise my eyebrows a little bit. How are you checking that the data doesn't degrade? Are you manually checking all of those BluRays you've created for reliability? That's a lot of sitting around and inserting / removing drives.

Its literally cheaper to build a 2nd NAS and stick more hard drives into it, and keep that 2nd NAS offsite somewhere.

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If you're gonna hold my feet to the fire over this "2-media" thing, then my 2nd media of choice would be Flash storage before Optical. Because SPEED is king. Speed means you can checksum your data and ensure that your backups are still good. I think Flash is a bit expensive compared to HDD, but based off of these BL-XL disks, I'm thinking that Flash is actually cheaper than Blu Ray and something like 10,000% faster. (Tapes would be a more ideal 2nd media... but I'm not "big enough" to make tapes cost-effective).

Yes, checksums and scrubbing. If you want to protect against bitrot (in ANY medium), you MUST double-check your backups over time.

TEST your backups. Any backup strategy that doesn't have a regular testing schedule is null-and-void in my opinion.

I seem to think that HDD, then Flash, and MAYBE Tape (if you're going really, really big) are the mediums of choice of the modern computer user. I'm not really seeing where Optical fits in today's world. Maybe a future Disk format (with maybe TB-level disks) can make Optical a thing again... but 100GB Blu Rays aren't really in the works for the modern user.

70MB/s is slow. And 100GB is too small per storage unit.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#126

That's good. But when will it ever move out of the enterprise market? What I really want is an affordable Tape storage for us common folks / home users to archive data long term. It's really a pain to keep transferring your old backups every 2-5 years to a new CD / DVD / portable HDD. There is a market for home users that really don't want to put their data on the "cloud". And this generation is really creating so mu…

A 12 TB HDD requires 10 GB/day for three years to be filled. This is not home market, it's professional market or hoarding (by today's standards). Objections on the failure rate of HDDs are absolutely valid, but then one should also need to consider the bigger picture (e.g. storage loss), in which case, having a remote copy is also important.

10Mbps (average bitrate) video fills 10GB on 2.2 hours. I don't think such usage is hoarding for today.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#127
post #110

I remember watching the pilot episode of Star Trek (the original series) and chuckling when Spock reports that “the tapes are badly damaged” from the capsule they recovered near the barrier at the edge of the galaxy. Turns out it might not be that outdated after all.

About a month ago found a stack of MiniDV tapes from about 15 years ago. It was my own home videos. I wanted to preserve them, so wanted to upload them to Google Photos. It took me some looking around in eBay to find a camcorder to play these back. When it came home, I realized that I needed a FireWire 400 port to capture full resolution. So more digging around for a FireWire PCI-E card. I was finally able to transco…

And in 2 years those tapes might be the only thing you got.

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#128
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's have someone invents a ultra high def head to repurpose all the old VCRs and VHS tapes :)

D-VHS was a thing, tape capacity started at 25GB

Oh I only remembered philips DCC .. fun

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#129

Mercifully, there was no requisite simpleton analogy like "that is the equivalent of stacking VHS tapes to the moon" or some idiotic thing like that.

>To put 580 terabytes in perspective, it’s roughly the equivalent of 120,000 DVDs or 786,977 CDs — IBM notes that stacking that many CDs would result in a tower 3,097 feet (944m) tall, or taller than Burj Kalifa, the world’s tallest building.

Is that just the media or the media + protective jewel cases?

Re: Fujifilm Created a Magnetic Tape That Can Store 580 Terabytes

#130
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's have someone invents a ultra high def head to repurpose all the old VCRs and VHS tapes :)

That would be wonderful, unfortunately the storage density of tape is dependent also on the magnetic particle in the tape; smaller particles which can be magnetised enable smaller heads, which in turn enable higher storage density. I know your comment was a throwaway idea but I got a little bit too involved looking up information around this answer - so I've committed further and looked a little deeper to avoid looki…

Thanks for the research, I naively assumed VHS band material was very lowly used by analog signal recording techniques.
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