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FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

reuters.com

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Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#11

Post by lumost »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #5
jmercouris wrote: post #2

This will revolutionize the delivery industry. I imagine trucks will become mobile drone carriers with drones landing and taking off with packages as they travel through the city.

I have a lot of doubts on the cost/efficiency of this. Keeping things airborne will always cost a lot more energy than rolling things around. Ground-based delivery robots make some sense, air-based ones likely don't.

It's likely that the energy cost of drone delivery is a small fraction of the cost a human delivery driver incurs walking to a stoop, particularly if one considers the not insignificant injury risk.

flight is appealing over ground based drones as one delivery truck or base station could concurrently service multiple blocks with lower risk of someone abducting or damaging the drone. Although in all honesty I'm not sure if weight, range, carrying capacity, or speed would work out in a compelling form factor.

Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#12

Post by xnx »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #5
jmercouris wrote: post #2

This will revolutionize the delivery industry. I imagine trucks will become mobile drone carriers with drones landing and taking off with packages as they travel through the city.

I have a lot of doubts on the cost/efficiency of this. Keeping things airborne will always cost a lot more energy than rolling things around. Ground-based delivery robots make some sense, air-based ones likely don't.

I had the crazy thought that drones ladden with deliveries could dispatch from the top of a central tall structure (like a skyscraper or antenna), take advantage of the height differential to efficiently glide toward their delivery destination, and then make their return with less weight to carry. Probably very few locales where this could make sense compared to automated sidewalk deliveries like Starship. The speed of the delivery could be astoundingly fast though.

Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#13

Post by victorthehuman »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #5
jmercouris wrote: post #2

This will revolutionize the delivery industry. I imagine trucks will become mobile drone carriers with drones landing and taking off with packages as they travel through the city.

I have a lot of doubts on the cost/efficiency of this. Keeping things airborne will always cost a lot more energy than rolling things around. Ground-based delivery robots make some sense, air-based ones likely don't.

If we're talking about fixed wing drones in rural environments then it does makes sense. A good example of that is this drone delivery service in Rwanda https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbRVNxL44c

Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#14

Post by clort »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #5
jmercouris wrote: post #2

This will revolutionize the delivery industry. I imagine trucks will become mobile drone carriers with drones landing and taking off with packages as they travel through the city.

I have a lot of doubts on the cost/efficiency of this. Keeping things airborne will always cost a lot more energy than rolling things around. Ground-based delivery robots make some sense, air-based ones likely don't.

Energy cost per time of use. drones might be a lot quicker to do the delivery job, particularly if the delivery point needs to be more secure than just tossing packages onto the front porch in plain sight as currently seems to be done.

Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#15

Post by chrisdalke »

snuxoll wrote: post #7
chrisdalke wrote: post #3

The final rule looks to be a big win for everyone who was protesting the original proposed rule: "The final Remote ID rule eliminates the requirement that drones be connected to the internet to transmit location data; the final rule requires drones to broadcasts remote ID messages via radio frequency broadcast." This is great because RF broadcast-based Remote ID is much simpler and cost-effective to integrate into ex…

RF can still be expensive depending on how it needs to be implemented. As a casual drone pilot I’m still concerned about how this is going to effect cost, existing equipment in the field and hobby/home-built uSAS’s. I’ll still take it over the internet mandate, however - so it’s a step in the right direction.

No matter what, there will be consequences for DIY/hobby aircraft, just because cost/weight/complexity are critical factors in a small drone. Most of the planes I fly now are wood/cardboard with a few dumb electrical components. Adding any component will make it harder for newcomers to enter the field.

The FAA has decided that unregulated drone flight is an issue, and no matter what, they're going to tackle it. So I'm happy to see any solution that allows for the continued existence of the DIY part of the industry.

In my mind the "ideal" solution for DIY aircraft is a separate RC receiver-sized transmitter, powered over BEC, that you add to your aircraft when you are flying in conditions that require Remote ID. The transmitter would become another fixed cost in the hobby, but you could use it on whatever aircraft you're flying -- It would be linked to a pilot, instead of a particular aircraft. I have zero knowledge of RF physics and engineering, but I'd be happy if that was possible without a heavy transmitter and significant power consumption.

Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#16

Post by Judgmentality »

SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #4

This is odd: night would be the time when I would think people don't want to hear "whirrrrrrr...' of drones flying over their houses.

Yeah, even if all of the logistical and technical issues of drone delivery make it economically viable for Amazon (or whoever) - I think I might boycott Amazon as a company if they started using drones for any deliveries. They are just so obnoxiously loud I would probably welcome people shooting them out of the sky (or if you're awesome you can use an eagle).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v5hCxBZTh0

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-35750816

Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#17

Post by pc86 »

coder543 wrote: post #6

What about changing the rules around commercial use of drone photography / videography? I don't understand why it's fine to use drones to take photos and videos for personal use, and why it's perfectly fine to use the smartphone in your hand for commercially-usable photos and videos, but combine the two and you suddenly have to get an FAA license? That requirement feels very arbitrary, and it feels like a requirement…

Like NW says, the FAA heavily regulates commercial activity. You can get a private license in as little as 40-ish hours. But you need an absolute minimum of 250 total hours to even qualify for a commercial license (and there are a bunch of hour requirements in subcategories such that if you're not explicitly working toward it, you're unlikely to meet minimums), and there's another written and practical exam.

And not for nothing but if you have a private pilot's license already, you can get a commercial drone license with nothing more than a CFI endorsement and a quick online written test. Most PPL holders I know (myself included) added it as an after-thought.

Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#18

Post by frisco »

coder543 wrote: post #6

What about changing the rules around commercial use of drone photography / videography? I don't understand why it's fine to use drones to take photos and videos for personal use, and why it's perfectly fine to use the smartphone in your hand for commercially-usable photos and videos, but combine the two and you suddenly have to get an FAA license? That requirement feels very arbitrary, and it feels like a requirement…

As a pilot, the dynamics of flying for money are very different than flying for fun or personal reasons. The pressure to make the flight in marginal conditions, or push separation to get the shot, or otherwise just generally fly closer to the limits is real and significant. Adding money (and presumably third parties) totally changes the nature of the operation.

Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#19

Post by pc86 »

xnx wrote: post #12
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of doubts on the cost/efficiency of this. Keeping things airborne will always cost a lot more energy than rolling things around. Ground-based delivery robots make some sense, air-based ones likely don't.

I had the crazy thought that drones ladden with deliveries could dispatch from the top of a central tall structure (like a skyscraper or antenna), take advantage of the height differential to efficiently glide toward their delivery destination, and then make their return with less weight to carry. Probably very few locales where this could make sense compared to automated sidewalk deliveries like Starship. The speed…

There aren't many warehouses at the top of skyscrapers, though.

Re: FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night

#20

Post by kreeben »

xnx wrote: post #12
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of doubts on the cost/efficiency of this. Keeping things airborne will always cost a lot more energy than rolling things around. Ground-based delivery robots make some sense, air-based ones likely don't.

I had the crazy thought that drones ladden with deliveries could dispatch from the top of a central tall structure (like a skyscraper or antenna), take advantage of the height differential to efficiently glide toward their delivery destination, and then make their return with less weight to carry. Probably very few locales where this could make sense compared to automated sidewalk deliveries like Starship. The speed…

>> drones ladden with deliveries could dispatch from the top of a central tall structure

Wouldn't the cost of elevating the loaded drones to the rooftop of that tall structure negate any monetary gains? Wouldn't the cost be exactly that of simply using grounded vehicles that elevate themselves?

(edited for clarity)

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