Live data from Hacker News

Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

psyche.co

31–40 of 72 posts

Re: Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

#31
post #6

This just doesn't strike me as true at all. Most of my children's books have very non-descript settings that begin in non-connected single family houses. But regardless of that framing, so many of my kids' books dive into the realm of the protagonist's imagination. This honestly just sounds like another indirect shot taken at suburban life. I get it, internet content writers disproportionately live in the big cities,…

Also, if you change that to "children's shows" instead of "children's books", most of them are set in something resembling a suburb: Peppa Pig, Paw Patrol, Bubble Guppies, etc. Sesame Street is a notable exception.

The choice to set Sesame Street in an urban (and minority) community was very much intentional.

Re: Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

#32
post #6

This just doesn't strike me as true at all. Most of my children's books have very non-descript settings that begin in non-connected single family houses. But regardless of that framing, so many of my kids' books dive into the realm of the protagonist's imagination. This honestly just sounds like another indirect shot taken at suburban life. I get it, internet content writers disproportionately live in the big cities,…

If reading the tea leaves about urban planning is the game, then it's also cherry picking.

How come kids are totally disinterested in cars? Oh wait, they're not disinterested in cars. There's a popular series of movies called Cars, and kids' toys include endless variations of cars like remote controlled cars and collections of miniature cars. When playing, kids will happily make vroom vroom noises and simulate car jumps and stunts and crashes, but I have never seen children's play involving the scenario of walking to a restaurant instead of driving there.

Re: Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

#33
post #6

This just doesn't strike me as true at all. Most of my children's books have very non-descript settings that begin in non-connected single family houses. But regardless of that framing, so many of my kids' books dive into the realm of the protagonist's imagination. This honestly just sounds like another indirect shot taken at suburban life. I get it, internet content writers disproportionately live in the big cities,…

Also, if you change that to "children's shows" instead of "children's books", most of them are set in something resembling a suburb: Peppa Pig, Paw Patrol, Bubble Guppies, etc. Sesame Street is a notable exception.

It's always bothered me that the local government of Adventure Bay chose to outsource pretty much all municipal services to a ten year old boy and his back of trained dogs.

Re: Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

#34
post #6

This just doesn't strike me as true at all. Most of my children's books have very non-descript settings that begin in non-connected single family houses. But regardless of that framing, so many of my kids' books dive into the realm of the protagonist's imagination. This honestly just sounds like another indirect shot taken at suburban life. I get it, internet content writers disproportionately live in the big cities,…

I feel the same way. As a city kid, I always felt left out because almost everything in US culture is based on the big suburban 'American Dream' home or, less often, rural life. I remember only being able to relate with Sesame Street because, gasp, people lived in apartments and hung out on city blocks with other kids just like I did! Kids books were a mixed bag, but definitely had more city representation than TV or movies.

On a more practical and aesthetic level, drawing cobblestone streets, cozy neighborhood stores, hand carved sandstone facade apartment buildings, etc is a lot more glamourous than drawing tract suburban housing, so I can see the appeal of it aesthetically. Also from what I've read about some of these authors, they were city people as well, so they just drew what they knew. The migration of the middle class to the suburbs didn't happen until many of these authors were well retired, so if kids are reading the more classic books, they'll see a bit more city life than usual and almost exclusively NYC where so many budding creatives had access to NYC's incredible publishing industry.

Lastly, kids can't drive. So if you want a kid having an adventure where he meets various storekeeps, neighbors out running errands, friends, pet stores, schools, etc then a walkable city makes the most sense. Walkable areas are just more communal and neighborly than suburban life as well. Its more realistic if a kid goes on an adventure in a city than in the suburbs were the only practical way around is being driven around. Bikes, less so, when the nearest store is 5+ miles away and there's no bike lanes. I also imagine parents are more comfortable with books not encouraging little kids to ride bikes in the street. As a parent, my recollection is that a lot of the books exist in a weird nebulous middle ground unless they outright take place in NYC or London or Paris for narrative reasons. Kids can walk through a urban downtown area with stores and neighbors but also end up in big suburban houses on big suburban streets in the same book and without taking a bus or a cab between either. So its probably hard to really divide this into city vs suburban if we want to be fair about it. Authors will do whatever fits their narrative. The walkable city is appealing but so is the big home, so why not have both?

Re: Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

#35
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I'm not convinced settings for kids books really tell us more about urban planning than they tell us about the the problem with not enough political situations being solved by encounters with handsome princes these days. And I'm pretty sure that well established story tropes predate suburbanism and republicanism is more of a factor in the popularity of certain types of fantastical settings than magic kingdoms f…

The children's books actually show hansome princes very rarely. Those are featured in traditional stories, m but most children's books in bookstore are decisively not that. What you call well established story tropes is not actual content of actual children's books.

It seems to me that children's stories have actually changed quite drastically over the years and between cultures and countries. I read my child many old children's stories (say, published between 1930-1960 in northern Europe) and they are scarier and more fantastical and more.. earthy. Lots more casual death and violence between imaginary animals. One reason I keep reading them is that they are interesting and I think they provide better life lessons: now that I'm an adult, I read one somewhat violent tale of a little girl being led astray by a wolf or something (not quite Little Red Riding Hood but something like it) and I was like, wow, this is quite a sophisticated little story describing and naming grooming behavior that leads to child exploitation! This is actually useful, unlike (so many others).

Modern children's books often seem to be written as psychotherapy for adults. For instance, one children's book my kid loves is supposed to have as a lesson that being together with friends is the best thing and we should live in community, but most of what my kid has taken from it is that the protagonist penguin has the most fun while doing stuff alone and yelling "I can do it myself!" It's a pleasant enough book but I think the old stories of danger and foxes and rabbits and bears will stick more. They're all about houses on the edge of the forest... does that count as the suburbs?

Re: Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

#36
Harry Potter's Privet Drive is unequivocally a suburb. While they are at "Number Four", the houses are all blandly similar, perhaps a cookie-cutter housing development. Vernon Dursley is in industrial drill sales and Petunia Dursley is a stay-at-home "mother" of two, though she spends most of the effort on Dudley.

These couple of chapters every book, where Harry lies low and gets abused at Privet Drive, are tales of suburban doldrum and wasted life. Vernon lives for the capitalist dream of fancy cars and vacations, Petunia lives on gossip and spying on the neighbors, Dudley lives for food, bullying, and quick thrills. All the Dursleys are about conformism and consumerism, sign-posts for the suburban life.

By being "neglected" of these things, Dumbledore says Harry has "escaped the appalling damage" done to Dudley (Book 6, Chapter 3). Harry is much more comfortable at the "rural" Hogwarts Castle, though admittedly that's got hundreds of friends, jinxes for any craving, mad drug potions, and who knows what else. It's really not a fair comparison, 9/10 would prefer Hogwarts' hybrid urban/rural feel.

Also, side note, my HN name is a combination of HP + Windows/Linux humor. I have no idea if many people got that over the years.

Re: Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

#37
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I'm not convinced settings for kids books really tell us more about urban planning than they tell us about the the problem with not enough political situations being solved by encounters with handsome princes these days. And I'm pretty sure that well established story tropes predate suburbanism and republicanism is more of a factor in the popularity of certain types of fantastical settings than magic kingdoms f…

The children's books actually show hansome princes very rarely. Those are featured in traditional stories, m but most children's books in bookstore are decisively not that. What you call well established story tropes is not actual content of actual children's books.

Yeah the children's book industry has been pozzed for decades upon decades now. Axioms of Good vs Evil aren't fit.

Re: Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

#38
post #12

The Dick and Jane books were set in the 'burbs. The suburbs are primarily white, cisgender and bastions of Patriarchy. Children's books that portray a white, cisgender, patriarchal world are not favored by the publishing or educational establishment.

The suburbs these days are incredibly multiracial and multi-ethnic -- please update your stereotypes :)

Re: Why are there so few children’s books set in the suburbs?

#40
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you change that to "children's shows" instead of "children's books", most of them are set in something resembling a suburb: Peppa Pig, Paw Patrol, Bubble Guppies, etc. Sesame Street is a notable exception.

The choice to set Sesame Street in an urban (and minority) community was very much intentional.

And was usually on just before or after Mr. Roger's Neighborhood which was set in a small town or suburban neighborhood.
Post reply on HN