Live data from Hacker News

Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

socketsite.com

101–110 of 562 posts

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#101
post #40

If the city would rezone all of the single family homes into higher density buildings, this wouldn't be a problem. Flood the area with supply and the cost will go down to reasonable levels. This is a problem all across the nation. Everyone wants a single family home, so this leads to two things: outrageously high costs of homes, or people moving out to the suburbs and thus worsening the rush hour traffic and smog iss…

And then who would want to live in SF? Surely not the people who love it now.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people doubt supply and demand to some degree. How often have you seen someone argue we should secure the supply of food to disaster zones by repealing price gouging laws? Rent control is popular because many people believe, wrongly but wholeheartedly, that landlords are just price gougers and everyone could get cheap adequate housing if they weren’t manipulating it.

My opinion is that rent control is much less about actually controlling rent, and more about controlling who is allowed to be in the city and where. Most rent control systems I’ve seen strongly favor those who have been in their current apartment for a long time, as moving often resets the rents back to market rate. And while that does help avoid evicting long time (and old) tenants, it also has the effect of forcing…

That concern, though, is something I've grown much more sympathetic to. There's a fundamental unfairness in putting in work to make your local community great, making it so good that rich people want to live there, and then being told that the community no longer has room for you because the rent is too high. If the city won't allow enough housing to keep your area affordable, you have a right to feel aggrieved, and it's understandable that you might misdirect the grievance if you have no lived experience of a city successfully expanding the housing supply.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#103
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both. I spent the last decade having these conversations with people who also grew up here and can’t afford to remain here without staying with their parents, with some of the stranger conversations devolving into my counter parties brainstorming ways to kick tech people out of the City and stop new people from moving in altogether, as if freedom of movement in the United States wasn’t really a thing. It’s not “suppl…

Exactly -- there's a pervasive belief in the bay area that high rents are solely due to the evil cabal of landlords who meet every week in a dimly lit room and agree to charge sky-high rents while cackling maniacally and twirling their perfectly-waxed moustaches. The sudden COVID-related rent price drop indicates that this theory is nonsense, and that the high rents are solely a function of supply and demand, but I'm…

artificially restricted supply

Let's not pretend this is Milton's economic utopia.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#104
post #99

Dear SF, More apartments built will not help make housing more affordable for normal people. Learn about the NYC real estate market- even pre covid apartment vacancy was extremely high, and the true numbers are unknown because building developers are manipulating the market by releasing units slowly. With all the excessive inventory in NYC, you'd think that a normal person (defined by median income) could afford to b…

What should we do robbyt?

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#105
post #40

If the city would rezone all of the single family homes into higher density buildings, this wouldn't be a problem. Flood the area with supply and the cost will go down to reasonable levels. This is a problem all across the nation. Everyone wants a single family home, so this leads to two things: outrageously high costs of homes, or people moving out to the suburbs and thus worsening the rush hour traffic and smog iss…

Increasingly, single family detached homes in the interior of SF are owned by the very wealthy who can remain in the city to shape policy over the long term, while renters come and go. So don't expect anyone at City Hall to swing a wrecking ball in the direction of Pac Heights. The problem has solved itself already - the US is big and empty. There is little reason to stack people twenty stories high in a Zoom economy…

How is North Dakota doing? Meanwhile Hong Kong and Tokyo escaped relatively unscathed.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'm surprised no other city in the bay area has taken the baton and aimed to overtake SF in terms of relevance by becoming the densest, most thriving city in the region. Oakland is at least trying to cope with demand in some neighborhoods. I'm rooting for that.

I would say it’s basically impossible to recreate a dense city based on today’s codes of construction requiring numerous safety/ADA measures in the US. In an existing city, the cost to purchase land and buildings that would need to demolished, rezoned, and rebuilt as a higher density area with accompanying infrastructure is astronomical and wouldn’t be possibly by anyone other than the federal government only because…

Citation needed.

The biggest issue with residental construction today is approval process and the amount of land that can be utilized.

An unreliable approval process means increased investment risk which keeps away investors.

Setbacks and parking space requirements significantly impact the amount of usable living space per acre of land.

Both of the above can be addressed by local municipalities. High density dwellings are going up all around in the rest of the US.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#107
post #54

Don't ask, Don't get. Everyone I know who has asked for a discount has got the discount. After several months of the pandemic, and noticing the adjacent apartment being relisted by my landlord at a discount I emailed my landlord and asked if I could have my rent adjusted by the same discount. They said yes, if I committed to another years lease. Saving 5% of rent, at the cost of a one year commitment didn't seem like…

Our landlord proactively offered! We pushed back a little and got an overall savings of around $6000 for committing to another year in an apartment we love. Well worth it.

Added bonus: The apartment is rent controlled so it will take 2 to 3 years before rent climbs back up to our old level, if we stay.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why, but a surprising number of people seem to have convinced themselves that supply and demand doesn’t apply to housing.

I think most people doubt supply and demand to some degree. How often have you seen someone argue we should secure the supply of food to disaster zones by repealing price gouging laws? Rent control is popular because many people believe, wrongly but wholeheartedly, that landlords are just price gougers and everyone could get cheap adequate housing if they weren’t manipulating it.

What's interesting and something I've witnessed first hand in NYC, that the tenants of rent controlled apartments will setup a black market for their rent controlled apartment in collusion with their landlord. So if they do move they will attempt to sell for the privilege of renting the unit, at the time this could range as high as $50k, the landlord and previous tenant would split this 'fee'. What's incredible is that for the right apartment in the right part of NYC amortized over a few years, this was a great deal for the new tenant.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#109
post #99

Dear SF, More apartments built will not help make housing more affordable for normal people. Learn about the NYC real estate market- even pre covid apartment vacancy was extremely high, and the true numbers are unknown because building developers are manipulating the market by releasing units slowly. With all the excessive inventory in NYC, you'd think that a normal person (defined by median income) could afford to b…

What should we do robbyt?

Taxing unoccupied homes and apartments will fix things real fast.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#110
post #80
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a side effect of de-taxing land. The more land becomes an asset and the less it becomes a liability (e.g. by capping property taxes) , the greater incentive there is to hoard it and jealously guard its value with NIMBYism which leads to even less development, greater shortages and even higher prices on an upward spiral. Saying "it's about supply and demand" is not technically wrong but it glosses over the toxic…

But they are using land productively as they are making $3100 a month off of a small studio. Also I doubt if raising taxes will result in anything more than them passing that cost on to the renters.

All costs are eventually paid by the end-consumer
Post reply on HN