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FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

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Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#201

Post by MandieD »

_petronius wrote: post #14
muststopmyths wrote: post #9

So, these people chose to keep their US citizenship, but chose to not follow the rules ? The woman was brought over as a baby, but chose to keep the citizenship into adulthood, presumably acquiring a passport or other citizenship documents. Otherwise how are the banks finding out ? Why should she be surprised if the IRS eventually comes for her ? Seems like giving up citizenship is the right solution for these people…

> but chose to keep the citizenship into adulthood, presumably acquiring a passport or other citizenship documents That is ... not how citizenship works. Once you are a citizen, it can be very difficult to get rid of that status (souce: born in the US, will end up paying an arm and a leg to get rid of mine). Failing to get a passport, file returns with the IRS, etc. can lead to you getting ignored, but it can also le…

What’s super fun is that if you’re a US citizen who is an EU resident, no US-domiciled mutual fund is allowed to be sold to you because they don’t meet the EU's customer disclosure requirements, but you’re an idiot if you buy the EU-domiciled ones you’re allowed to because of US-assessed PFIC.

Closest solution I’ve found is a Schwab International Account based in the US, and buying Berkshire Hathaway shares, because it's so broadly invested in lots of other companies.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#202

Post by wenc »

wheybags wrote: post #198
wenc wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's lived abroad several times in my life, I agree. I've always had local bank accounts in my countries of residence. That said, I have recently heard of a new product called the Transferwise Borderless Account that lets you hold money in different currencies, and along with the provisioning of local banking IDs in several jurisdictions like the EU, UK, Au/NZ, Hungary, Romania, Singapore and the U.S. It…

Transferwise is great, I do have one of their multi currency debit cards. It doesn't fully solve the problem though, it's more useful for visits and online purchases. You couldn't get paid straight into it, so you need to get paid into your home account, then transfer in dollars, then convert them into local currency, so you're still doing two forex transactions. Better than one for each purchase, but will not ideal.…

The Transferwise Borderless page (see section "Coverage") says they provide a local bank ID in several countries (ABA/Routing in the US, SWIFT/BIC and IBAN in the EU etc), so it seems like it would be like a real local bank account?

I'm thinking this could be quite useful for digital nomads.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#203

Post by blaser-waffle »

throwawayiionqz wrote: post #107
happynacho wrote: post #95

I would love if there was an option to buy their citizenship for that $2350 fee, hell even double would be a no-brainer. Strange how some people want to get rid of it and how others want it no matter what.

Not so strange after you experience it. Walk into a bank to open an account where to receive your salary. In no time after mentioning your US citizenship, you are shown the exit door. Try every bank until you eventually lie about it as the only way go on with your life.

Wasn't too bad in Australia or Canada -- but those are also US allies who have long cultural ties and tax + immigration treaties.

My brother is in Denmark (previously France) and has mentioned it was a PITA but solvable.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#204

Post by jancsika »

bitcharmer wrote: post #36
jancsika wrote: post #21

> She received automatic citizenship by being born on U.S. soil, but has no other connection to the country, having left as a baby. Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time unless they saw that citizenship as a benefit that outweighs the costs, or at least as a potential benefit…

> Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time Wrong on both counts. I know two people who fall under the category you deem "no way in hell"

You know two people who were born in the U.S. and do not know that this means they are a U.S. citizen?

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#205

Post by rini17 »

throwawayiionqz wrote: post #77

The best way out of this is the EU asking for reciprocal measures in future trade agreements and tax treaties (fatca reporting, residency based taxation). If US banks had the same reporting requirements to EU countries regarding EU dual citizens accounts, this absurd situations of being denied banking relationships in the country you work and reside would stop promptly.

They can. Would probably end up same as extradition treaties (hint: there is none from the US, only from other countries to US)

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#207

Post by wheybags »

wenc wrote: post #202
wheybags wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transferwise is great, I do have one of their multi currency debit cards. It doesn't fully solve the problem though, it's more useful for visits and online purchases. You couldn't get paid straight into it, so you need to get paid into your home account, then transfer in dollars, then convert them into local currency, so you're still doing two forex transactions. Better than one for each purchase, but will not ideal.…

The Transferwise Borderless page (see section "Coverage") says they provide a local bank ID in several countries (ABA/Routing in the US, SWIFT/BIC and IBAN in the EU etc), so it seems like it would be like a real local bank account? I'm thinking this could be quite useful for digital nomads.

Oh, OK, I didn't realise you got a personal account number like that. I mainly used it for card transactions while traveling.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#208

Post by j4yav »

centimeter wrote: post #176
j4yav wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this essentially exactly what they for some period said of every new ethnic or religious group in the US going back to before it was even an independent country? Catholics, Jews, Irish, Chinese, Russians, Muslims, Mexicans, and Italians have all had or are having their time of being seen an existential foreign threat, irredeemably incompatible and insidiously perverting the pure culture (at least by some), and…

> Isn't this essentially exactly what they for some period said Yeah, and they were mostly correct. That's how we ended up with the situation we have today. That's literally the point of my post.

Out of curiosity who were the pure originals in your view? Native Americans?

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#209

Post by R0b0t1 »

nvarsj wrote: post #63
R0b0t1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your situation isn't normal. You need to be making quite a bit of money to be taxed. If you don't have any desire to return to the US why not just ignore it?

The taxes are the least of it. The expense and time it consumes to file the various forms is a huge pain. Anyone who has investments, a business, or property abroad will suffer from this. My net taxes were very low, but I have spent thousands on accountancy fees and hundreds of hours of my own personal time. GILTI was just the latest landmine. I net in the low 6 figures, via my own consultancy. I have a one man shop…

You don't have to come back to the US. If it's not worth it to do so, don't. But if it is keep filing your taxes.

I could see improving things but your perspective still sounds like whinging. Accounting and filing is the cost of doing business. More troublesome is the SS and other tax contributions you're responsible for, but that just means you should charge more.

To give you a comparison, this sounds to me like people stating we should wipe out student debt. Doing so is inherently regressive. Already well off people go to college anyway and people with a degree make more over their lifetime. They are not the people who need help the most. Likewise, if you are encountering serious financial strain because of this you need to charge more, but you're still making more than most people do.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#210

Post by Digit-Al »

dasudasu wrote: post #141
Digit-Al wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed. So let's get this straight. On one side you have Americans who think it's reasonable to tax people who don't live in the country and thus don't use any of the services that tax pays for and then on the other side you have Americans who believe that all tax is theft under the threat of…

It's not true to say they necessarily don't use any of the services. The US still defend its citizens abroad, and might evacuate you in case some disaster happens, do hostage rescue using the full power of its military and intelligence agencies, and will generally provide consular help and speak on your behalf should you get into trouble.

I don't buy it. We're talking here about people who have literally never lived in America since they were too young to even remember. They have lived in another country, paid taxes in that other country, and probably have a passport for that other country. If anything happens to them there would likely be an expectation that their adopted country would look after them, not the US.
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