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How much math you need for programming (2014)

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Re: How much math you need for programming (2014)

#181

Post by coldtea »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #95
coldtea wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that. Though I wouldn't necessarily consider it "muddying the waters", but taking another criterium as important in the distinction of physics-like or not. Namely, not whether it concerns the study of the material universe, but whether it involves experimentation/discovery of in place structures, and other such physics-like processes (which they think it does).

This is muddying the waters though, though I think you’re in good company. I’m not sure if mathematics belongs in the sciences or art; it really has hallmarks of both. It a modeling language that can be used to describe the universe. You don’t have science today, without the math. Yet some of the proofs and mental exercises in pure math are almost divine; inspired in a way that resonates like a beautiful work of musi…

>This is muddying the waters though

In a way, yes, as it extends the casual/conventional understanding of the term. I'm just saying it's not done to intentionally muddy the waters, but to introduce an alternative understanding.

So, yeah, we agree!

Re: How much math you need for programming (2014)

#182

Post by ab3rC1te »

mint2 wrote: post #180
ab3rC1te wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know honestly, we as an entire whole of the world should just go back to hands on training. Forget studying the same crap for 15-20 years of our lives to have a damn calculator to solve basic adding and subtracting that's done on a cash register in our daily lives. How many of you solve out of this world equations in your daily life? 95% of the world doesn't. We all use basic add and subtract. Hardly anyone knows…

Is this sarcasm?

If you think it is, give yourself a pat on the back. If not, then give yourself another pat on your back with your other hand. I suppose its up to the individual to decide what they believe is sarcasm. It could be one telling the truth.

Re: How much math you need for programming (2014)

#183

Post by kergonath »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #178
kergonath wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a while, people thought that a universe in which Euclid’s postulates would be wrong would be very strange indeed. In my opinion it is short-sighted to go from “it’s weird (to us, right now)” to “it’s impossible”. On the contrary, it’s very interesting to explore the consequences of something we take for granted being actually wrong or unnecessary.

In a universe where Euclid's postulates are wrong, like ours, you can still construct them. You're positing a universe where it's impossible to construct counting – i.e., set theory is impossible to imagine, Peano arithmetic is impossible to imagine, Church numerals are impossible to imagine… In such a universe, how is conscious thought even possible?

> You're positing a universe where it's impossible to construct counting

Not quite. Your parent post was about thinking beings being incapable of counting, unless I misinterpreted, not about the universe making it impossible for anyone to count. My analogy is that for a while our universe was one in which non-Euclidean geometry was unfathomable for at least one thinking species, although it clearly can be observed in the universe.

Counting is something that is deeply embedded in our evolutionary tree (some fish and frogs have a primitive ability to count). So of course it seems fundamental to us. But to me this is not a proof that you cannot think without being able to count in our familiar way.

For example, you could perhaps build a logical system using uncountable quantities and still get something out of it. Like some fish which are able to see which school is bigger and base decisions on this without being able to count.

Re: How much math you need for programming (2014)

#184

Post by cmrdporcupine »

vacheron wrote: post #176
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #157

I didn't get a CS degree precisely because I bombed out of math so bad in high school that I couldn't get admission to any program. Here in Canada a good grade in academic-stream high school math was simply mandatory for admission to any BSc program. Took a philosophy BA instead, though didn't finish it... dropped out to go get a job programming during the .com boom, and now 25 years later I work at Google. Was a lon…

> Here in Canada a good grade in academic-stream high school math was simply mandatory for admission to any BSc program Perhaps that's why I've always found excellent engineers from Canada's flagship schools (U of British Columbia and U of Toronto) :p More seriously though, I have an advanced degree in Math and seldom needed it for development work, even when I was working in more quantitative roles. And whenever I d…

If I were to pick flagship schools for Canada for computer science and engineering, it wouldn't be those two... it'd be U Waterloo and U Alberta. Well, ok, U of Toronto, yes, but UBC doesn't come to mind.

But in Canada generally we don't have the same level of status game around school reputations that Americans seem to have. Certainly grads from U Waterloo do very well, but they may have as much to do with their excellent intern program than anything else.

Re: How much math you need for programming (2014)

#185

Post by ashconnor »

mattlondon wrote: post #156
iamben wrote: post #16

I gave up maths as soon as I could at school (16) and didn't study it for an A-Level. It was required for my CS degree, but they let me in without it. I had to apply myself a little more to pass the maths modules, but I don't think maths has really been important to me or my career. I can totally understand WHY maths would be important for some programmers (and why thinking mathematically would help), but "programmin…

Same here, although my degree didn't require maths A-level. There are times when I wonder "hmm would I have known this alreay had I done A-level maths at school?" but that I think is general imposter syndrome more than anything. At least for me, I've never needed anything particularly special maths-wise for professional work, apart from derivatives for ML/AI and even that was just academic-self-pleasuring from the co…

I did A Level Maths and I don’t recall any of it showing up when I did my degree at the University of Liverpool.

Re: How much math you need for programming (2014)

#186

Post by vacheron »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #184
vacheron wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Canada a good grade in academic-stream high school math was simply mandatory for admission to any BSc program Perhaps that's why I've always found excellent engineers from Canada's flagship schools (U of British Columbia and U of Toronto) :p More seriously though, I have an advanced degree in Math and seldom needed it for development work, even when I was working in more quantitative roles. And whenever I d…

If I were to pick flagship schools for Canada for computer science and engineering, it wouldn't be those two... it'd be U Waterloo and U Alberta. Well, ok, U of Toronto, yes, but UBC doesn't come to mind. But in Canada generally we don't have the same level of status game around school reputations that Americans seem to have. Certainly grads from U Waterloo do very well, but they may have as much to do with their exc…

Interesting. Alberta is really only known for reinforcement learning as one of the leading academics relocated to Edmonton, but they're not known for much else. You won't hear of Alberta much in academia or in Silicon Valley, and the only reason I know of them is due to prior interactions with Richard Sutton.

UBC and UT certainly receive more funding for computer science and engineering and they're generally well regarded research schools and highly recruited from. UT seems to be slightly more prominent but I'd wager it's a result of the school being much larger with multiple campuses all considered the same school. Same story with Waterloo's computer science faculty being many times the size of UBC with mandatory internships in its undergrad program.

Perhaps the reputation of schools domestically in Canada is different than their brand overseas, as UBC is known even in Switzerland and Sweden, but Alberta and Waterloo are completely unheard of. Even now as I relocated to the USA, UBC comes up often (despite the relatively small Computer Science faculty) and all the past companies I used to work for across quantitative finance and autonomous vehicles recruited from them.

Re: How much math you need for programming (2014)

#187

Post by cmrdporcupine »

vacheron wrote: post #186
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were to pick flagship schools for Canada for computer science and engineering, it wouldn't be those two... it'd be U Waterloo and U Alberta. Well, ok, U of Toronto, yes, but UBC doesn't come to mind. But in Canada generally we don't have the same level of status game around school reputations that Americans seem to have. Certainly grads from U Waterloo do very well, but they may have as much to do with their exc…

Interesting. Alberta is really only known for reinforcement learning as one of the leading academics relocated to Edmonton, but they're not known for much else. You won't hear of Alberta much in academia or in Silicon Valley, and the only reason I know of them is due to prior interactions with Richard Sutton. UBC and UT certainly receive more funding for computer science and engineering and they're generally well reg…

There is a reason why Google's (by far) largest engineering office in Canada is located in Waterloo region.
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