Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

ramblinghistory.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 20 posts

Re: Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

#11

Post by justicezyx »

Red29 wrote: post #10
star-trek-fleet wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you said are true. But let's stick to the topic and avoid whataboutism. Edit: I saw you have another almost identical comment (now flagged). Are you feeling that I am deliberately leave out the rethoric that China or CCP were equally brutal, so that you have to raise points about China been the one committed crime. I find those thoughts insulting, inhumane, and plainly wrong. I am a Chinese. My ancestors have suf…

So the point is, is that there were many horrific incidents that occurred in Asia, and China sadly. I think it's more useful (and reasonable) to look at all the brutality. The 1850s civil war in China btw was arguably the worst of the lot. An insane level of brutality there but it seemingly goes unmentioned. The west did horrific things in Asia. I'm really curious why the Chinese don't have the same level of resentme…

> I'm really curious why the Chinese don't have the same level of resentment over the British given how barbaric they treated them in the 1800s.

Not sure how did you get the impression that Chinese don't have the same level of sentiment towards Britain?

I suggest you google what happened in Nanjing and the 731 unit. And see for yourself why they evoked stronger mental reactions.

But still, like I expressed elsewhere, to question people's feeling based on hypothetical political motive is such a CCP way of thinking. I have to say that a lot of people have lost the battle against CCP.

Re: Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

#12

Post by Red29 »

justicezyx wrote: post #11
Red29 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the point is, is that there were many horrific incidents that occurred in Asia, and China sadly. I think it's more useful (and reasonable) to look at all the brutality. The 1850s civil war in China btw was arguably the worst of the lot. An insane level of brutality there but it seemingly goes unmentioned. The west did horrific things in Asia. I'm really curious why the Chinese don't have the same level of resentme…

> I'm really curious why the Chinese don't have the same level of resentment over the British given how barbaric they treated them in the 1800s. Not sure how did you get the impression that Chinese don't have the same level of sentiment towards Britain? I suggest you google what happened in Nanjing and the 731 unit. And see for yourself why they evoked stronger mental reactions. But still, like I expressed elsewhere,…

So based on a limited pool of my Chinese friends and work there I have never experienced any resentment towards the British. Nor do the Chinese show anger towards Koreans who made up a significant proportion of the Japan imperial force. I'm aware of the history of China. It's telling that it was the USA after the war that played up Japan's aggression in China. Now the invasion was bad, but was it unique in its brutality? The 1850s civil war in China was way worse.

Why the lack of focus on Europeans not apologizing for what they did in Asia/China? Why the bombardment of films about the evil Japanese invading but not the Europeans?

I've seen anti-japanese posters in China never seen anything on Europeans.

Re: Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

#13

Post by justicezyx »

Red29 wrote: post #12
justicezyx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really curious why the Chinese don't have the same level of resentment over the British given how barbaric they treated them in the 1800s. Not sure how did you get the impression that Chinese don't have the same level of sentiment towards Britain? I suggest you google what happened in Nanjing and the 731 unit. And see for yourself why they evoked stronger mental reactions. But still, like I expressed elsewhere,…

So based on a limited pool of my Chinese friends and work there I have never experienced any resentment towards the British. Nor do the Chinese show anger towards Koreans who made up a significant proportion of the Japan imperial force. I'm aware of the history of China. It's telling that it was the USA after the war that played up Japan's aggression in China. Now the invasion was bad, but was it unique in its brutal…

I am not sure what's your motivation of continue this motivation analysis on my feeling towards brutality.

I am always frustrated by the general skeptics applied on any comments where China and/or Chinese people were painted as the victim.

Doesn't it appear universal that feelings of people because of recent historical events should be respected?

To answer your question again, WWII is the most recent historical events... Of course people are going to have fresher memory of them. If people apply same emotional response to all historical events, USA should have a civil between Indian, African Americans, White, and Mexican people all the time.

Why such self-evident rationale automatically excluded from anything related to China/Chinese people? Was this racism? I cannot find any other execute...

Re: Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

#14

Post by Bakary »

Red29 wrote: post #10
star-trek-fleet wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you said are true. But let's stick to the topic and avoid whataboutism. Edit: I saw you have another almost identical comment (now flagged). Are you feeling that I am deliberately leave out the rethoric that China or CCP were equally brutal, so that you have to raise points about China been the one committed crime. I find those thoughts insulting, inhumane, and plainly wrong. I am a Chinese. My ancestors have suf…

So the point is, is that there were many horrific incidents that occurred in Asia, and China sadly. I think it's more useful (and reasonable) to look at all the brutality. The 1850s civil war in China btw was arguably the worst of the lot. An insane level of brutality there but it seemingly goes unmentioned. The west did horrific things in Asia. I'm really curious why the Chinese don't have the same level of resentme…

>I think it's more useful (and reasonable) to look at all the brutality

In what specific way is it more useful? Other than just the overall raw fact of pointing out that collective memory is often arbitrary and in flux (which I think most people intuitively accept). You certainly will not get to see people get upset or relaxed in exact proportion to the magnitude of the topics considered.

I'm asking because I've heard those arguments in various contexts and there's rarely added information other than an attempt to de-legitimize grievances through historical comparisons.

I'm not saying that this is the case here or attributing intentions to your post, but I feel it is worth mentioning the context under which these arguments might be perceived.

Re: Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

#15

Post by Red29 »

Bakary wrote: post #14
Red29 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the point is, is that there were many horrific incidents that occurred in Asia, and China sadly. I think it's more useful (and reasonable) to look at all the brutality. The 1850s civil war in China btw was arguably the worst of the lot. An insane level of brutality there but it seemingly goes unmentioned. The west did horrific things in Asia. I'm really curious why the Chinese don't have the same level of resentme…

>I think it's more useful (and reasonable) to look at all the brutality In what specific way is it more useful? Other than just the overall raw fact of pointing out that collective memory is often arbitrary and in flux (which I think most people intuitively accept). You certainly will not get to see people get upset or relaxed in exact proportion to the magnitude of the topics considered. I'm asking because I've hear…

I think it's problematic to isolate historical events without considering the surrounding history and can inflame tensions between communities/nations. In terms of The Japanese invasion of China, this event has often been magnified by China in comparison to other brutal events that occurred after and before it. Taken in isolation it is indeed horrendous. But zeroing in on this event downplays the brutality of the other events within China, both by other Europeans and by various Chinese over the past 200 years. Its a distortion of history. To give an example for a number of decades in china there have been 1000s of films about Japan's invasion of China. How many have there been on Britians cruelty to the chinese? Encouraging a demonising of a nation is not something I can support.

Re: Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

#16

Post by justicezyx »

Red29 wrote: post #15
Bakary wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think it's more useful (and reasonable) to look at all the brutality In what specific way is it more useful? Other than just the overall raw fact of pointing out that collective memory is often arbitrary and in flux (which I think most people intuitively accept). You certainly will not get to see people get upset or relaxed in exact proportion to the magnitude of the topics considered. I'm asking because I've hear…

I think it's problematic to isolate historical events without considering the surrounding history and can inflame tensions between communities/nations. In terms of The Japanese invasion of China, this event has often been magnified by China in comparison to other brutal events that occurred after and before it. Taken in isolation it is indeed horrendous. But zeroing in on this event downplays the brutality of the oth…

Hey, this comment is composed of arbitrary claims without any references. Can we have a more constructive discussion where information and data can be shared?

Re: Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

#18

Post by Red29 »

justicezyx wrote: post #16
Red29 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's problematic to isolate historical events without considering the surrounding history and can inflame tensions between communities/nations. In terms of The Japanese invasion of China, this event has often been magnified by China in comparison to other brutal events that occurred after and before it. Taken in isolation it is indeed horrendous. But zeroing in on this event downplays the brutality of the oth…

Hey, this comment is composed of arbitrary claims without any references. Can we have a more constructive discussion where information and data can be shared?

Well that's a fair point. Can I also say that I thought your first comment was beautifully written (I'm being honest here).

Anyway, I don't have time right now right now to provide evidence. So that does weaken my case. I looked into this stuff years ago. I also am aware that my position might be hurtful to Chinese. That is not my intention either (but it may have happened - and I'm sorry if that did occur). I could try and provide some links Tomo.

Just to repeat I know the Japan invasion of china was horrific. Their treatment of British Soldiers was awful too.

But how this event has been portrayed by the Chinese, relative to other awful historical events and the impact that has had on them is something I feel needs consideration. Anyway I'm just repeating myself.

Re: Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

#20

Post by justicezyx »

Red29 wrote: post #18
justicezyx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, this comment is composed of arbitrary claims without any references. Can we have a more constructive discussion where information and data can be shared?

Well that's a fair point. Can I also say that I thought your first comment was beautifully written (I'm being honest here). Anyway, I don't have time right now right now to provide evidence. So that does weaken my case. I looked into this stuff years ago. I also am aware that my position might be hurtful to Chinese. That is not my intention either (but it may have happened - and I'm sorry if that did occur). I could…

Points taken.

CCP indeed has a plan for most significant historical events where the party has proper resources to work on. Those were mostly managed by the propaganda department. This is also reflecting my comments elsewhere about China is far more exotic than just being oppressive and authoritarian.

But for all those manipulation, Japanese denial has been extremely insulting and unnecessary, which I have been saying all the time.

Post reply on HN