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FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

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Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#51

Post by [deleted] »

dragandj wrote: post #31
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also as far as owing onerous back taxes go, aren't taxes you paid in your country of residence deductible ? No, the USA has treaties with only some other countries that result in net-zero taxation of self-employed people. If you live in a country with which a tax treaty has not been concluded, and you are self-employed, you are liable to both your local country for income taxes etc., and to the USA for Social Secur…

OTOH, isn't there a poverty-line amount in USA that makes some income level practically tax-free (through deductions, etc.)? I imagine that in most countries $15.000 / year is a rich person's income, while in USA it puts you under "starving". What I want to say, if you're living in, say, Kazakhstan, earning a good fat paycheck of $1000 a month and living like a king, shouldn't you file "I'm starving poor at $12000" t…

[deleted]

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#52

Post by mmaunder »

elgatonegro wrote: post #37
eralps wrote: post #29

I am a green card applicant basically waiting to become a US citizen in the next 5 - 10 years. Comments are mostly blaming the person for not renouncing it but is renouncing really necessary? If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? This has been a scary scenario for a long time for me and I don't think I would be able to pay tax to the US with my in…

If you become a US citizen you have to file yearly IRS tax returns, calculate and pay taxes. There is no getting around this, it does not matter where you live. The US has bilateral tax agreements with certain countries to avoid double taxation. So if you happen to be in one of these countries, you will normally pay taxes to your host country and if those are greater than the taxes owed to the US (which in many cases…

Good reply. This is a cost of US citizenship and you are not forced to acquire citizenship. You could get permanent residency. I had to make this choice and chose citizenship 15 years ago. It’s a hell of a thing swearing that you’ll bear arms to defend a country you weren’t born in.

I have had many occasions to feel glad that I did. From military base tours to easier to entry/exit to Canada to buying a house or getting a loan. It generally makes paperwork much easier in this country and opens up a few doors.

If you think the tax filing requirement is a big deal, consider the restrictions and obligations that other countries have. Compulsory military service, restrictions on moving money, etc.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#53

Post by eralps »

zajio1am wrote: post #46
eralps wrote: post #29

I am a green card applicant basically waiting to become a US citizen in the next 5 - 10 years. Comments are mostly blaming the person for not renouncing it but is renouncing really necessary? If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? This has been a scary scenario for a long time for me and I don't think I would be able to pay tax to the US with my in…

> If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? You have a benefit of a right to return to the country of your citizenship and to live there. You also still could vote in a country of your citizenship even if living outside (not sure how that fit in US federal setup).

This makes sense you are right. Voting rights never even came to my mind.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#54

Post by R0b0t1 »

nvarsj wrote: post #13

Being an American expat is a complete nightmare. The retroactive GILTI/transition taxes enacted by Trump and the republican Congress put a massive strain on my family and finances. Imagine getting a bill for a significant portion of your life savings despite paying already 50% tax in your foreign country and having dutifully filed US taxes at great expense. Never have I disliked being an American so much. Some people…

Your situation isn't normal. You need to be making quite a bit of money to be taxed.

If you don't have any desire to return to the US why not just ignore it?

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#55

Post by nvarsj »

elgatonegro wrote: post #30
nvarsj wrote: post #13

Being an American expat is a complete nightmare. The retroactive GILTI/transition taxes enacted by Trump and the republican Congress put a massive strain on my family and finances. Imagine getting a bill for a significant portion of your life savings despite paying already 50% tax in your foreign country and having dutifully filed US taxes at great expense. Never have I disliked being an American so much. Some people…

Looks like living abroad is not the issue here, being an owner of a foreign corporation is. There are millions of Americans living abroad, maintaining their US bank and retirement accounts.

So you're saying it's all okay as long as you remain a permanent employee your entire life with a company owned pension plan? Is that a joke? What if you want to buy property, invest in a business, open up a private retirement fund, or a million other things. All of these are a massive land mine for any American living abroad. On top of that you have things like FACTA that affects everyone. This kind of stuff has negatively touched the entire expat community, saying otherwise just shows ignorance.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#56

Post by mmaunder »

How do you not know that you’re a US citizen? Surely that’s an edge case?

The price of renouncing your US citizenship went from around $500 to just under $3000, so the key issue seems to be to make renouncing more accessible.

If filing IRS paperwork no matter where you reside seems an onerous obligation for a citizen, try compulsory military service or currency export controls, both of which the US does not have.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#57

Post by NotPavlovsDog »

US citizenship comes with a big administrative burden even if you don't live in the US.

Some parents with European citizenship sometimes do not file an American birth certificate when registering their child for a European birth certificate. I.e. if the country facilitates registration of child based on parent citizenship and not birth location of child, they just never declare the child was born in the US. "It was a home birth"

At international schools in some countries this is an open secret and happens quite often, as long as the parents are not feds and are not under heavy scrutiny. So the kid has two different BC & passports with two different birthplaces. Some even have different birth-dates and names.

Sure saves the poor kids the nightmare of not being able to open a bank account abroad, as a US citizen.

The moral is, plan your money, plan your kids, the federales will never inform on what is in your best interest. Both kids and money come with paperwork attached. Best read up now. And yes, a timely consultation with a lawyer before the fact is most often cheaper than the cost of renouncing US citizenship and the time you waste on declaring while not living in the US.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#58

Post by lixtra »

smnrchrds wrote: post #41
est31 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, if you are a male inside a certain age range, you first have to get a waiver from the government office responsible for the draft before you can lose your citizenship.

In Iran, you have to first finish your military service, currently 2 years, then apply to the president's office, which (almost?) never approves an application anyway.

And your children will be Iranian as well.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#59

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jancsika wrote: post #21

> She received automatic citizenship by being born on U.S. soil, but has no other connection to the country, having left as a baby. Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time unless they saw that citizenship as a benefit that outweighs the costs, or at least as a potential benefit…

How much do you remember as a baby?

I’ve known people who didn’t realize they were actually undocumented immigrants having grown up here past where their memories began. It is an awkward conversation with their parents eventually, but not knowing your citizenship isn’t weird.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#60

Post by eralps »

mmaunder wrote: post #52
elgatonegro wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you become a US citizen you have to file yearly IRS tax returns, calculate and pay taxes. There is no getting around this, it does not matter where you live. The US has bilateral tax agreements with certain countries to avoid double taxation. So if you happen to be in one of these countries, you will normally pay taxes to your host country and if those are greater than the taxes owed to the US (which in many cases…

Good reply. This is a cost of US citizenship and you are not forced to acquire citizenship. You could get permanent residency. I had to make this choice and chose citizenship 15 years ago. It’s a hell of a thing swearing that you’ll bear arms to defend a country you weren’t born in. I have had many occasions to feel glad that I did. From military base tours to easier to entry/exit to Canada to buying a house or getti…

Not exactly a big deal I just did not think it was feasible but the exclusion is reasonable.

Kind of off point but I actually do have a compulsory military service in my country of birth as well.

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